Steam & Excursion > Soo 1003 in Fox Lake, Illinois area

Just adding to Soo 1003 coverage from Friday evening. 

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Thank you, pure railroading,

Nice coverage Ron.

Also, question for the experts; does 1003 have a feedwater system, and if so which kind?

Studying the videos, it appears to have two injectors, only.
Engineer has a lifting injector inside the cab, with a boiler check valve 
way up near the smoke box .

The fireman has a non-lifting injector under the cab, with the steam valve
in front of the cab.

​W.

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Studying the videos, it appears to have two
> injectors, only.
> Engineer has a lifting injector inside the cab,
> with a boiler check valve 
> way up near the smoke box .
>
> The fireman has a non-lifting injector under the
> cab, with the steam valve
> in front of the cab.
>
> ​W.

Thanks Wes. That's what I thought concerning those 1913 2-8-2s.

I believe that's an Elesco exhaust steam injector on the firemans side, unless they changed it, as that's what she had when in Duluth.

-LD



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/22 20:28 by LarryDoyle.

The fireman's side does indeed have an Elesco exhaust steam injector.  It apparently ruptured a gasket and 1003 and its train were parked in the siding at Spring Grove, IL while the crew attempted to make a new gasket in the tool car.  The injector was apparently acting up while on Metra and a goal was to get off of Metra's rails then address the issue.  The train was parked on a coach yard lead at Fox Lake for several minutes but then whistled off and departed only to stop for a bit about a mile further north.  Eventually the train made Spring Grove where it was parked.  The crew wasn't too sure how successful they'd be in making the gasket and if so would they still have enough time to make it to Janesville, WI.  The crews hours were set to expire at 5:00 pm so they may have spent the night in Spring Grove.  I headed home so don't know if they made it any farther north of Spring Grove.  
 
When in Fox Lake I noticed the lifting injector on the engineer's side being a bit balky and not wanting to pick up.  I noticed a small amount of steam constantly venting from the overflow pipe and I attributed this to the injector steam valve not totally seating and allowing steam to leak by and heat the body of the injector.  I know this happened once too with NKP 765 in North Judson, IN several years back with the non-lifting injector under the engineer's side of the cab and one of the crew told me the leaking steam heated the body of the injector causing it not to want to pick up.  At Fox Lake, one of the old heads had the crew prime the injector for 30-45 seconds to the point where he could hold his hand in the relatively cool overflow stream.  This must have cooled the body of the injector and it immediately picked up when the handle was pulled all the way out.  Some of the experts can chime in if my understanding is off a bit.    

You're understanding is very accurate ---- about cooling-off hot injector bodies..

The big advantage of non-lifting injectors is the ability to have 
gravity to allow cold water to flow and cool off the hot injector bodies...

In order to suck in more water to the injector body, the pressure in the
body must be lowered to below atmospheric pressure.

The injector internal cones form a pencil-thin jet of steam impinging on the delivery
water...with cold water the steam forms a ram and lifts the boiler checks....starting the flow.

BUT, if the supply water is hot, the attempt to form a partial vacuum only results in
lowered pressure which boils the hot water and no ramming effect is formed..

Lowering the pressure on a body of hot water allows it to boil at a lower pressure.
The injector MUST be fed with cold water.

The whole injector body must operate in a partial vacuum to draw cool water into the path
of the tiny steam-jet that forces the water into a "high velocity mass" that overcomes the 
boiler's internal pressure.

A leaky steam valve at the injector body must be corrected ..... and that generally
means that it has to be be worked-on while cold to the touch.  Steam valves generally  have 
internally renewable seat-inserts and replaceable valve stems.  Most often, unless too worn,
minor steam leaks can be smoothed out with varying grades of abrasive lapping compounds.

But, it's one of those jobs that takes an afternoon to resolve...and nearly impossible 
while under steam and tight performance schedules, on mainline railroads.

If you've got a 'gun' that displays balkyiness, continuing to try to operate it only
aggravates the problem by adding more wear at the leak site..it only gets worser and worser.
Get to repairing the leaky steam valve as soon as it begins to show signs of leaking
and reluctance to operate the first time, and every time..

Sometimes, the injector's cones get too-worn internally from their precise ( expanding diameter) tapers
to become worn 'straight sleeves' for worn cones.   In that case , all new injector cones are needed,
and easily renewed.  if you make you own renewal tools and special wrenches.

Metalic rust and other impurities from the tender's water is what wears the
water combining-cones inside injector bodies.  Injectors handle thousands 
of gallons of 'ditry' water and they can be expected to wear fairly quickly.
​

W.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/22 05:37 by wcamp1472.

So, would it be possible to install a feed water pump, or would it not either be possible or worth the money and aggravation?
TIA.

Regards

Posted from iPhone

Possible? Yes.

But, why replace a simple, reliable, light weight, easy to maintain, efficient device with no moving parts with another device that is none of the above?

BTW, FRA Regs require two independent water supplies, at least one of which must be an injector.

-LD

Dr. Know's....

The exhaust steam injector, when 'new' functions at virtually the same efficiency 
as feed water pump systems.

While there is cylinder-exhausted steam pressure delivered  at the base of the
smokestacks' exhaust nozzle, these devices take advantage of the retained 'heat energy'
to form a very effective, pencil-thin steam jet that forces water past the boiler check
and into the boiler.

As the engineer slows, and the throttle is gradually closed, the exhaust steam injector 
switches-over to continue to force water,  using LIVE steam from the boiler.
And, it will  automatically switch back to exhaust steam for the 'forcing jet',
once underway.

In years of service, the exhaust steam injectors can become very finicky, and difficult to
keep reliably forcing boiler water.

Pump systems and conventional injectors have a wider range of operation,
as their parts become worn...  Exhaust steam injectors are not as 'forgiving' .
Normal wear in their cones and jets quickly reduces their effectiveness and 
their reliability.

But, when new and tuned-up they continue function very well.  
It would not be worth the time and investment  to install a feed water pump system..
..as long as you keep 'young' internal parts in the existing system.  

It takes a little more routine maintenance; but, that's a good thing ..... to keep expanding
the knowledge-pool of folks as they, together share & learn how to keep it the injectors
in tip-top shape.

Its fun and rewarding, while firing to observe the steady delivery of boiler water throughout 
the varoius throttle settings --- as it continues to automatically switch to the varoius
operating modes keeping the boiler continuously fed.

 AND, the operator has a limited range of water flow rates that can be adjusted.  
Thus, he can leave the injector running during a short station-stop, & cut back-on 
( reduce) the water supply valve ---- while continuing to feed the boiler....
at a lower rate of delivery ...

Once underway again, the water supply valve can be returned to 'full-open' position and
then matched to the "continuous supply-rate"  of the throttle position and the power settings
as the engineer reaches low-demand  superheated steam-availability at smooth cruising speeds.

Once steady-state steam demands are reached, the use of great quantities of steam & water
 are greatly reduced.  Valve cutoffs can be adjusted to limit steam admission for just 10 to 15%
of normal admission timing...as well as reducing throttle opening....all of which saves fuel and water.

​With superheated steam you don't need full boiler pressure at the pistons... 700-degrees
steam has immense expansive power to keep intense pressure applied during the entire
power stroke.   Enough to provide loud, sharp stack-talk at speeds above 80-mph... 

With a decent ( heavy) train supplying the high draft, the superheated steam does all the work !
The engineer closes down on the throttle, when cruising across the flats,  When partially 
closed, the throttle increases the "dwell time" of the steam in the superheater units.

Together with the strong draft provided by the trailing cars, the increased dwell-times and
the white-heat of the fire's flames makes generating the superheated steam very easy,
and with very little demand for high firing-rates.... saving fuel.  

A WHITE-HOT fire and a light gray stack is always the supreme goal..

​W.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/22 09:18 by wcamp1472.

LarryDoyle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe that's an Elesco exhaust steam injector
> on the firemans side, unless they changed it, as
> that's what she had when in Duluth.
>
> -LD

Ah, that would explain the report of a "blown gasket in the feedwater pump", which could have been a gasket in the cold water turbine pump.

Thanks.

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
...........
> ​With superheated steam you don't need full
> boiler pressure at the pistons... 700-degrees
> steam has immense expansive power to keep intense
> pressure applied during the entire
> power stroke.   Enough to provide loud, sharp
> stack-talk at speeds above 80-mph... 

Not in a 63" driver, you don't  !!

re: HotWater's comment, above....


Not quite...

(" lifting" and "non-lifting" are terms describing how cold water is drawn into the injector body.  
  'Lifting' injectors are mounted near the horizontal centerline of the boiler and draw water up,
    into the injector body.  
  
      'Non-lifting' injectors are mounted near, or below the bottom level of the
      tenders..... Water can rush through them simply by opening the 'water' valve .  
      In both types there is a vacuum-operated 'flap-valve' that shuts off the drain pipe to the ground:
       the 'over-flow' valve.

       Remember that in order to draw water into the injector body, the  water-drawing and ramming cones,
        and the inside of the injector body operate at a partial vacuum, below atmospheric pressure.
  
     Boiler pressure  and higher, occurs at the outlet of the injector body ---- all the way up to the boiler,
      entering.through a delivery check valve.) 
  

 Most Exhaust Steam Injectors were " non-lifting" and mounted low, below the lowest 
water level of the tender...

EXCEPT.....
Union Pacific......
Which on Challengers and 4000s .... where the injector was mounted on the side of
 the smoke box, well above the tender's lowest water point.  

How do you get feed water to flow to a 'non-lifting' injector when it's mounted ABOVE
the water level of the tender?.

Exhaust steam injectors were NOT sold with centrifugal pumps to keep them supplied
with cold water...   Gravity was more reliable.

So, UP bought additional centrifugal water pumps ( mounted low, to be gravity fed) to force feedwater
up to the level where the injector body was happy.

It was only a UP 'thing'...

​W..
 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/22 03:04 by wcamp1472.

Elesco claimed that the exhaust steam injector could put water into a boiler at 150 psi with as little as 1 psi back pressure in the exhaust passages!

With no back pressure, e.g. a standing locomotive, it uses live steam from the turret, the same as any other non-lifting injector, then automaticaly switches its steam source as exhaust steam becomes available.  When driftng or running slowly with little throttle, a fireman sometimes hears a faint clicking sound as the injector switches from live steam to exhaust steam, four clicks per revolution of the drivers as back pressure varies in the exhaust passages of the engine.

It does not always have an audible "roaring" sound usually associated with injectors, so in the cab on the backhead in front of the fireman there is a small bowl with a water spout.  It looks like a shrunk down bubbler type of drinking fountain associated with city parks.  A steady small stream of water flows from the font to show the fireman whenever the injector is putting water into the boiler.

Soo Line only had four locomotives in this class, the L-1, Numbers 1003, 1005, 1006, and 1010.

-LD

Nice video footage!

Thank you for everyone's comments today.  Much appreciated.
 

---

Once again thanks to all for the info. My time with steam is very little but I have always found steam power in all its applications fascinating. Learning every day.

Regards

Posted from iPhone