Steam & Excursion > CP Donates Turntable to RRHMA

Saw a Trains Magazine article that Canadian Pacific donated a former Milwaukee Road 110 foot turntable and to be transported from Bensenville, IL to Silvis, IL. It was also noted that the original Rock Island turntable in Silvis was 90 feet long so the pit where it once stood will have to be enlarged.

is the center bearing and its support of pilings still in place, or has it been removed?

The crucial component of the the existing facility is the undistrurbec center bearing
snd the supporting pilings.

Making a new rim and circular rail should be comparatively straight forward.
Also, Cleaning-out the existing pit's storm drains is a necessary project..

​W.
 

More details from the article

RRHMA’s Erik Hoofnagle says the organization plans to repair any steel that needs replacement, sandblast and paint the table before installation. CP also donated the turntable ring and clips, which will be installed after a new concrete pit is poured. A set of plans for the pit was preserved and copies made available to RRHMA. The turntable will allow the organization to easily turn locomotives and other equipment at Silvis.

Out of curiosity, what is the minimum length of turntable 3985 needs?

Posted from Android

Fantastic! Kudos to CP for donating this piece of the Milwaukee Road for preservation. Interestingly enough, CP is building a new turntable near the east end of the yard to replace the old one.

Posted from iPhone

A-1 Wrote:
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> Out of curiosity, what is the minimum length of
> turntable 3985 needs?
>
> Posted from Android

A 10 second Google search says 122 feet in length but the again it's Google so ...

A-1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Out of curiosity, what is the minimum length of
> turntable 3985 needs?
>
> Posted from Android

This donated table - 115’ long.

Posted from iPhone

I wonder if they'll do that old jacking trick to get 3985 to fit on the turntable.

For those who don't know, back when the UP ran steam in regular service, if engines such as Challengers and Big Boys were just a few feet too long to fit all the way on a turntable, they would jack up the back wheels to get it to fit. The full procedure is detailed here.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,5364703,5364715

Obviously the critical dimension is the 'wheel-base'.
The distance from the vertical  center line of the loco's lead pilot axle
to the center line of the last tender truck axle..... called the 'wheel base'.
Plus, the additional allowance to the clearance points of the outer
'flange-edges'.. depending on wheel diameter. 

The posted 'length' of most locomotive 'specs' is the coupler-to-coupler distance
... probably 6 feet longer,  on each end of the loco*.  Meaning that the loco length is much
longer than it's wheelbase...... wheelbase+needed flange-clearance, is the critical number.
when it comes to spinning a loco or two on a turntable.

In Rock Island RR days, Silvis Shops had an easy, wide, wye track for turning whole
multi-unit diesel locomotive consists.    Also, the long, 'tail track' was used as a dumping 
spot for full fuel tanks that were later found  ( over the inspection pit tracks) to have
punctures ---- requiring welding repairs .   The fuel had to be dumped before welded
patch repairs to any fuel tank.

The 'practice' was that all "incoming power" --- while in complete consists---  in-bound to
the back shop was fully fueled, cooling water added,  and sand boxes filled, prior to
entering the 'shop'...

So, locos with leaking, damaged, full tanks, that were discovered, while over the
inspection pits of the shop, were taken out & dumped ( drain plugs) , way-out on the
wye's 'tail' track...the practice went-on across decades...since the first diesels arrived..  
Typical fuel tank capacities, in later years, were 3,000 gal. tanks... 

For the last 2-years or so, inbound loco consist were delivered to the 
Hump Service Track. a long siding ( with a spur ---midway) for fueling, sanding and 
Intended for the daily servicing of the hump engines.  

At the HST, we could and did find damaged fuel tanks on in-bound power.
We avoided adding any fuel, notifying the Silvis Shop supervisors so that they could
intercept such situations.

 If the puncture was at the bottom, obviously, there would be no remaining fuel.
 If a hole is higher-up on the fuel tank, adding fuel would restart the the leak....
we caught them all.   We did all we could to mitigate such wasteful mishaps.

The revised loco servicing scheme was adopted to separate incoming loco consists at a 'triage'
location to send inoperative road power (+those scheduled for FRA required  90-day inspections)
to the 'Big House', then re-use the 'good' units recouped, serviced and delivered to ready, outbound
departure trains.   

The hostler crews + the car inspectors walked the complete departure air brake inspection
and testing, & leaving a 'successful test' certificate in the lead-loco's cab, for the road crew's
authorization and verification.   With the departing "road power" attached earlier,  every cars'
air tanks would be fully charged and ready for testing. 

The intent was to have the departing train all ready and tested , for instant departure upon
road crew's arrival at the lead loco... everything  was 'ready to go'.  
They could get on, release the brakes and get underway, virtually immediately.

By Agreement, Yard-caused delays exceeding 45 minutes could entitle the departing road crew
penalty compensation charged to 'initial terminal delay', thus, holding-up the quick departure....  

Some crews,upon arrival at the locos, would throw-out the fresh ice in their cold water
portable coolers, then radio-in the complaint about 'no ice', ---seeking to "start the clock' ----
on 'the initial terminal delay' compensation penalty.  

Our HST supervisors ( in truck) would drive fresh ice and water in a fresh cooler to the waiting crew...
Then we would radio the 'tower' that the 'water issue' was resolved ---and return to the HST with the
empty cooler....ready for refill  and the next departure.

Soon, the crews more quickly departed  Silvis Yard, and get out of town....without incurring any 'delay'
compensation.  We dispatched trains eastward and westerly, and for in-bounds, we separated
the 'cripples' from the 'good' power.  Formerly, such loco making-up and switching was done
at Silvis Shops,  which interfered with the congestion inside that immense building.

By using the HST and mechanical department crews and our 'inside' and 'outside' hostler crews,
we eliminated several bottlenecks for both incoming locomotives and departing sets of power ....
things ran fairly smoothly, once we got the servicing and departure procedures down to a science.

It was one innovation and operation that materially shortened departure problems, and
freed-up more shop space in the Big House, by keeping the switching and servicing of
daily departures out of their servicing areas.  We saved a lot of time and more quickly
dispatched outbound trains from the previous procedures.

But, as a 'ship', the 'ROCK' was inexorably sinking into oblivion...regardless of our individual
daily successes....nothing could change that.


​W.

* I'd bet that 3985's wheelbase would easily fit on the 115' table.... somebody'll look it up
   and add the guess for extra length needed to clear the outer flanges, from any 
   approach tracks at the TT pit's rim.





 



Edited 14 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/22 08:00 by wcamp1472.

3985 wheelbase, from the Union Pacific website:

Wheel Base:         Driving: 12 ft. 2 in. & 12 ft. 2 in.
                             Engine: 60 ft. 4-1/2 in.
                             Engine & Tender: 121 ft.10-7/8 in.

https://www.up.com/heritage/steam/3985/index.htm
 

I would have lost money,  if I'd made a bet!
Its darn close, though!
I hope the wye is still at Silvis..

Thank you for the facts!

​W.

Could they put a short extension on each end of it?  

holiwood Wrote:
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> Could they put a short extension on each end of
> it?  

No. What would hold up those extended rails on each end?

They could put an "extension" on the rails; but, then 
you'd never be able to turn the thing.

It weighs close to a million pounds.... steel rails are flexible.
What keeps the rails from spreading?
There's 10 axles; you do the 🧮 math.

Think about your question, before pounding the keys.

​W.

 

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They could put an "extension" on the rails; but,
> then 
> you'd never be able to turn the thing.
>
> It weighs close to a million pounds.... steel
> rails are flexible.
> What keeps the rails from spreading?
> There's 10 axles; you do the 🧮 math.
>
> Think about your question, before pounding the
> keys.
>
> ​W.
>



This is a hobbyist site, with differing levels of knowledge and experience. 

Perhaps you could think about pounding the keys ~ when pounding the keys.  


Nickatnight

I meant put a short piece made like the rest of it on each end. 
It is going to be a big job as it is and things are going to be
taken apart and put back together  

holiwood Wrote:
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> I meant put a short piece made like the rest of it
> on each end. 

Again, how would those "short pieces" be supported, and STILL be able to move the turntable bridge, WITHOUT enlarging the the entire turntable pit? The simplest way is to use a jacking-bridge under the rear axle set of the tender. Just as the UP used to do in North Platte, Neb, back in the steam days.

> It is going to be a big job as it is and things
> are going to be
> taken apart and put back together  

What "things"? The 3985 or the donated turntable bridge assembly?

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> is the center bearing and its support of pilings
> still in place, or has it been removed?
>
> The crucial component of the the existing facility
> is the undistrurbec center bearing
> snd the supporting pilings.
>
> Making a new rim and circular rail should be
> comparatively straight forward.
> Also, Cleaning-out the existing pit's storm drains
> is a necessary project..
>
> ​W.
>  I passed by Bensenville last Sunday and the turntable appeared to be still 'in place'.

Tom

The simplest solution was devised long ago, by the Union Pacific at its 
turntables which were shorter then the locomotive.

There's several photos of the method they routinely used to get the job done.

Use what's proven to work ... without permanently modifying the structure.

​W.

.
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/22 13:35 by wcamp1472.

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would have lost money,  if I'd made a bet!
> Its darn close, though!
> I hope the wye is still at Silvis..
> ​W.

If it was just west of the roundhouse, it 's long gone. I don't see one anywhere else nearby either.

Posted from iPhone