Steam & Excursion > Say what about PRR J1 2-10-4?

This is quoted from a history of the J-1 at Wikipedia

Pennsylvania Railroad class J1 - Wikipedia

"1 locomotive No. 6435 is rumored to be buried in a previously PRR owned yard, now covered by a Norfolk Southern mainline and a road bridge, but this hasn't been confirmed."

 Victor Bard

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/23 15:21 by wabash2800.

The same yard where the NYC Hudson is buried?
And, maybe, an SP AC-9?

We need to break-out the ground-penetrating radar!
If they can identify underground bunkers, they can find 
a locomotive!

​W.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/23 16:24 by wcamp1472.

I didn't say I believe it, but there have been buried locomotives used as bank reinforcements, two or three in river bottoms, and at least two in the bottom of the ocean.

Victor Baird

 One of our Liberty Ships went down off of the coast of France in 1945(?) with a full load of American Built Locomotives
for WW 2  reconstruction purposes. I think a storm was involved.

And I guy I knew in the 80s swore there were a few Big Boys left in operation on a branch so remote that nobody could get in there to photograph them and practically nobody knew about it.  But then, Alan was notoriously full of $$$$.

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions

MaryMcPherson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And I guy I knew in the 80s swore there were a few
> Big Boys left in operation on a branch so remote
> that nobody could get in there to photograph them
> and practically nobody knew about it.  But then,
> Alan was notoriously full of $$$$.

That's just as bad as when the rumor mill from the late 70s-mid 90s about Elvis being alive and each time it's mentioned on Facebook, some claim that the Challenger Crew's still alive but in a "top secret" location and under different names!

ProAmtrak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MaryMcPherson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And I guy I knew in the 80s swore there were a
> few
> > Big Boys left in operation on a branch so
> remote
> > that nobody could get in there to photograph
> them
> > and practically nobody knew about it.  But
> then,
> > Alan was notoriously full of $$$$.
>
> That's just as bad as when the rumor mill from the
> late 70s-mid 90s about Elvis being alive and each
> time it's mentioned on Facebook, some claim that
> the Challenger Crew's still alive but in a "top
> secret" location and under different names!

I think almost every big city has that rumor. For Houston, it was that one of the Pacifics used on the Sunbeam was hidden away in a warehouse near the Ship Channel. That would be a neat find !!!!

I never thought Wikipedia would report rumors.... I just thought you would get a kick out of this.

Victor Baird

You're all wrong.   They are all out in the high desert in a cave and stored just like all the planes out there.  They were mothballed there durig the Cold War for emergency purposes.   Hundreds of them.  One that got away reportedly ended up in a quarry, a PRR 0-6-0.  Just wait, you'll see and then we'll see who is laughing.

Frisco1522 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're all wrong.   They are all out in the high
> desert in a cave and stored just like all the
> planes out there.  They were mothballed there
> durig the Cold War for emergency purposes.  
> Hundreds of them.  One that got away reportedly
> ended up in a quarry, a PRR 0-6-0.  Just wait,
> you'll see and then we'll see who is laughing.

Ah, yes ... the mystery 0-6-0 rumor started by none other than Len Shaner ... who created multiple sock puppet accounts on the same forum to back up his claims. Trouble was, he didn't bother to correct his rather unique use of incorrect punctuation when he posted under different aliases. 🤣

Posted from Android

I read the J1 was buried at the horseshoe curve. Derailed during during WW2. To expidite getting the tracks back into service quickly, the J1 was shoved off the roadway and buried.
If I remember correctly, this was in a letters to the editor in Trains magazine, many years ago.
If it was in Trains magazine, it's got to be true, right? 🚂

Posted from Android

On my first visit to the ATSF 2926 site about 15 years ago, I was visiting with a young volunteer about Santa Fe steam. He told me with a straight face that the reason they kept or preserved so much large steam at various points around the system was... If there was a nuclear war with Russia, diesel and electric power would be zapped by a powerful electromagnet force, makikg them useless, and big modern steam could be reactivated on short notice to pull trains!

Posted from Android

What gets zapped by the EMP is any "solid-state" electronics---
known commonly as micro-chips.

So, when auto ignitions went with electronic components--- they too 
would be ruined by the EMP ( electro-magnetic pulse)

EMP is the intense magnetic field generated during the explosion 
of atomic weapons.  Unless sensitive electronics is surrounded with
magnetic-wave ('radio waves') protection, those devices' sensitive
electronic junctions get short-circuited, and are useless.

The rapidly expanding EMP reaches farther than either the blast wave, 
or the heat wave.  EMP will 'fry' all of todays familiar electronics out
to a couple of hundred miles--- in all directions.
 Your cell towers will be fried, your TV studios & individual sets will be zapped,
radios made useless, health-related electronics devices will quit ...
. all in an instantaneous FLASH!  

If you could see the flash, EMP has just fried all your electronics .....

You may live hundreds of miles away from targeted population centers---
all the things you rely-on: communications to autos will all be instantaneously
zapped !   Even if you own a '68, or earlier auto with point-breaker spark ignition 
systems ( no electronic amplification) all the gas pumps within range of the EMP
will be inoperative, and cooked...  Immense regions of the 'electrical grid' will
instantaneously 'go dark' electricity at your homes, businesses, will stop.
Any elevators that are running will stop...doors closed, and dark!

When your system-wide, elevated water storage systems get empty,
there will be no way to refill them..  Hoarders will be quick to refill every
container they can find, or steal... We'll shooting each other, over simple
things we all need..soon, the gun owners will perish too; mostly by suicide.
You will truly be on your own.  When your "hoarded stash" is all gone,
then what will you do? 

"Nuclear winter" will truly be bleak.... immense numbers of people will perish,
on "both sides". Those citizens that survive will be cave-like in their existence...
Radiation illnesses will be deadly, kill very quickly and no medical aid will be available.

Steam locos could be operable, but the railroads will be inoperative,
functioning only at very primitive levels. What would they transport?
How are you going to replenish fuel and water, once your tenders
are empty?


Putin had better well be 'kidding' in his nuclear threats.... 
Their use will be Terminal for the human race.

New plants and young trees will be able to spring-up, though..
in the following Springs..

​W.


 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/23 08:39 by wcamp1472.

wcamp1472 Wrote:
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> What gets zapped by the EMP is any "solid-state"
> electronics---
> known commonly as micro-chips.

Not just micro-chips. My understanding is that things like transmission lines would be severely damaged.

My estimate (guess) is that about ninety percent of our population would be dead within six months, mostly from starvation and civil unrest.

Concerning this "EMP", or EMI (Electro-Magnetic Interference) as I remember, when the U.S.Air Force was researching the possibility of mobile ICBs inside railroad cars, moving around the U.S., we had a conference in the EMD Engineering Dept. conference auditorium. The main topic was about the type of locomotive needed to transport the missile caring "cars" that would not be drastically affected by EMI/EMP. As the discussion progressed, it be came pretty obvious that even an "old GP9" would NOT comply with the Air Force's proposed requirements. Sitting behind our Chief Engineer, I stood up and raised my hand, in order to offer a comment. Upon being recognized, our moderator called on me. I explained that the ONLY railroad locomotive that would NOT be affected by EMI/EMP would be a steam locomotive, as there was absolutely nothing electrical involved in its operation, except for the head light and cab lights. Quite a few people broke out in laughter, whereupon the Chief Engineer stood up, and said,"Laugh all you want but, Jack is correct!". Things sort of went down hill after that, as the various Air Force officers began to realize that the whole project was doomed.

Another subject that came up was "how to disguise" the various rail-cars carrying the missiles. One of the guys in the Engineering Truck & Bogey Group pointed out that all one had to do was look at the truck springs, and anyone could tell a "loaded missile car" from an "empty missile car". That had never occurred to the Air Force folks either.

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Concerning this "EMP", or EMI (Electro-Magnetic
> Interference) as I remember, when the U.S.Air
> Force was researching the possibility of mobile
> ICBs inside railroad cars, moving around the U.S.,
> we had a conference in the EMD Engineering Dept.
> conference auditorium. The main topic was about
> the type of locomotive needed to transport the
> missile caring "cars" that would not be
> drastically affected by EMI/EMP. As the discussion
> progressed, it be came pretty obvious that even an
> "old GP9" would NOT comply with the Air Force's
> proposed requirements. Sitting behind our Chief
> Engineer, I stood up and raised my hand, in order
> to offer a comment. Upon being recognized, our
> moderator called on me. I explained that the ONLY
> railroad locomotive that would NOT be affected by
> EMI/EMP would be a steam locomotive, as there was
> absolutely nothing electrical involved in its
> operation, except for the head light and cab
> lights. Quite a few people broke out in laughter,
> whereupon the Chief Engineer stood up, and
> said,"Laugh all you want but, Jack is correct!".
> Things sort of went down hill after that, as the
> various Air Force officers began to realize that
> the whole project was doomed.

HotWater, thanks for your comment. To me it was  a given that today's electronic filled locomotives would become dead weight, but I was curious about how the early ones with relay controls would fare. 

Could anything be done tom harden a diesel-electric locomotive? Wouldn't the carbody  be a start for a Faraday cage?

Check out the Carrington event in 1859. That was a big solar flare that played havoc with the telegraph system.

jkh2cpu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the Carrington event in 1859. That was
> a big solar flare that played havoc with the
> telegraph system.

and we are probably overdue for the next one.

Would a Carrington event be worldwide, or would the dark side of the Earth when one occurs be shielded by the planet itself?

wabash2800 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I never thought Wikipedia would report rumors....

Many people dont know/understand what Wikipedia is...

A wiki (/ˈwɪki/ =11.9px(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Loudspeaker.svg/11px-Loudspeaker.svg.pnglisten) [i]=12.6pxWIK-ee[/i]) is an online hypertext publication collaboratively edited and managed by its own audience, using a web browser. A typical wiki contains multiple pages for the subjects or scope of the project, and could be either open to the public or limited to use within an organization for maintaining its internal knowledge base.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

longliveSP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many people dont know/understand what Wikipedia
> is...
>
> A wiki (/ˈwɪki/ =11.9px(https://upload.wikime
> dia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Loudspeaker.s
> vg/11px-Loudspeaker.svg.pnglisten) =12.6pxWIK-ee)
> is
> an online hypertext publication collaborativel
> y edited and managed by its own audience, using
> a web browser. A typical wiki contains multiple
> pages for the subjects or scope of the project,
> and could be either open to the public or limited
> to use within an organization for maintaining its
> internal knowledge base.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

Exactly. Someone can put anything on it until someone else takes it down.