Steam & Excursion > L&N Class M1 2-8-4 Locomotives - Question

Does anyone have a clearance diagram ?
I'm looking for the specific extreme width meaurements.

Road Numbers: 1950 - 1963    Baldwin 1942
Road Numbers: 1964 - 1969    Baldwin 1944
Road Numbers: 1970 -1991     Lima 1949

One of my favorite steam locomotive classes.

A couple of photos for illustration purposes. From my digital files but not sure of some of the original credits.

1. L&N 1961 at DeCoursey, KY in 1956 - credited to Jack Fravert
2. L&N 1962 - unknown date and location
3. L&N 1988 at Corbin, KY in May 1952 - one of the Lima built engines.


Thanks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/23 13:47 by train1275.

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Two more ....

L&N 1991, another of the Lima engines.
L&N 1965, Baldwin built, 2nd order.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/23 14:08 by train1275.

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Super steam photos.
Bob

A shame none of them were saved.

The Limas were built in 1949!
What a shame that none of those Limas were saved.

I guess we're pretty lucky to have 4 RDG T1s still around!

​W.


 

The shot of 1962 (and a second M1 behind it) is at L&N's South Louisville roundhouse and is very likely a Jack Fravert slide.
The engines are pointed South so they likely have arived over the Short Line" from DeCoursey Yard in northern Kentucky. 
Pr, if the shot was taken on May 5, 1956, they are likely being serviced for their Ky Derby Train assignments that day.Four
M1s ran Derby trains that day which was the only time M1s were used on those specials. Six months later, the last M1 was retired.

1962 pulled an excursion from Cincinnati to Ravenna in June, 1956
Are you sure the third photo is a Corbin? Looks like Ravenna to me but its hard to be sure.

There is a great shot of the 1960 leaving Cincinnati Union Terminal with one of the 1956 Derby trains in our new DVD,
"Cincinnati Steam Classics".

-Jim Herron
Herron Rail Video

JH

"Are you sure the third photo is a Corbin? Looks like Ravenna to me but its hard to be sure."

I have no idea, that was the caption associated with the image.
 

Lima Super-power with all roller bearings, Boxpok 69 inch drivers, 65,000 TE, with a 14,000 TE boaster and  with one piece frame.   

train1275 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone have a clearance diagram ?
> I'm looking for the specific extreme width
> meaurements.
>
> Road Numbers: 1950 - 1963    Baldwin 1942
> Road Numbers: 1964 - 1969    Baldwin 1944
> Road Numbers: 1970 -1991     Lima 1949
>
> One of my favorite steam locomotive classes.
>
> A couple of photos for illustration purposes. From
> my digital files but not sure of some of the
> original credits.
>
> 1. L&N 1961 at DeCoursey, KY in 1956 - credited to
> Jack Fravert
> 2. L&N 1962 - unknown date and location
> 3. L&N 1988 at Corbin, KY in May 1952 - one of the
> Lima built engines.
>
>
> Thanks
10'7" is the widest point on the Baldwin M-1 1st Edition, I don't have the drawings for the Lima. 

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10'7"  

Thanks !!

Very attractive locomotives!  Wouldn't one of the Limas make a terrific mainline excursion engine?

Another sad case of all being scrapped.

Superb images of a beautiful locomotive.
Jim Kreider

Frisco1522 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very attractive locomotives!  Wouldn't one of the
> Limas make a terrific mainline excursion engine?
>
> Another sad case of all being scrapped.

I wonder if NKP 779 had beaten L&N 1991 out of the plant as it was scheduled to do, if there would have been more of an effort to save 1991 as the the "last" Lima steamer?

To JunctionTower -- yes!  
Concur with PanAmerican's remarks.  
Stay tuned for a book devoted to L&N  M-1s

Hey Wes. I see that the pony truck on the L&N Bershires look like the pony trucks of a typical 4-8-4. Just an exposed wheel, whereas an NKP Berk looks “enclosed”. What was the difference? Thanks in advance for your reply.

Mark “Cancer-free” V.
The Fort in Indiana

Posted from iPhone

Goalieman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Wes. I see that the pony truck on the L&N
> Bershires look like the pony trucks of a typical
> 4-8-4. Just an exposed wheel, whereas an NKP Berk
> looks “enclosed”. What was the difference?
> Thanks in advance for your reply.
>
> Mark “Cancer-free” V.
> The Fort in Indiana

Inside axle bearings vs. outside axle bearings.

It's where you place the rolling-element bearings: between the wheels, or on the 
axle ends.  Most common, prior to the success of rolling-element bearings.
plain bearings  were commonly mounted on the axle, right next to the pilot 
wheels.  Could be either inside the wheel-hubs, or outside the wheel hubs.

The problems were that the pilot-trucks get hammered, left and right, as they try 
to guide the front of the locomotives at track-soeeds.  

Plain bearings are a polished set of 2-different-hardness metals.. steel axles
& babbited, brass bearings ( the soft metal babbitt coating gradually wears-away,
making a smooth polshed bearing surface of the brass ---- which is  bearing the
weight onto the revolving axles).

Axles also move end-to-end, --- the plain bearing wheel-hubs bumping up against the
flat face of the brass bearing*.  But, the bearing only covers the top 180-degrees of the axle...
sooo... end-wise pounding often leads to overheated plain bearings --- also, hard
end-wise banging can displace the lube pad --- oiling the cylindrical portion of the axle---
So...it was very common for plain bearing, pony-truck axles to occaisionaly over-heat and fail.

The advantage that Timken patented was tapered rollers and cone-shaped races.
That arrangement means that as long as the thrusts are against and tightening onto 
the rollers.... the thrusts are 'rolled' from the axle to the fixed outer-race.
Two Timkens are placed, back-to-back, at each wheel...

To handle two-directional, end-wise battering, you place two similar Timkens,
back-to-back on the axle, and restrained by the fixed journal box.
NOW, when hitting curves and turnouts, the rollers guide the axles and the 
whole pony truck through the left-and-right hammering -- with a much smoother
and stronger bearing design.

NOW, back to your question:  there are inner mounted bearings and outer mounted 
roller bearings .... I suspect that the outer mounted bearings, like on freight car trucks,
are less expensive than the bearings mounted between the wheels.

On 4-wheel pony-trucks, there's not a lot of room under those big cylinders --- for
a pony truck to move left and right .. so, IF you mount the large bearing-housings of the 
roller bearings on the outside of the wheels...you risk bumping into the fixed, 
large diameter cylinders.

  So, it's more common that the bearings are mounted on the inside of the 2-axle,
  pony truck's wheels...  the axles of the pony trucks shift, left and right, in order to
navigate the curves, .... and the axles of the trailer trucks, also move left and right,
following the curves of the track...but, invariably all trailer truck axles have out-board
mounted bearings..

So, during WW2, loco builders were allowed to use the Timkens on driver axles and 
pony truck axles --- regulated by the War Production Board... they wanted most of the
roller bearings for the airforces, navy ships, and tanks --- so, during the War, locos
were often built with plain bearings on trailer truck axles and tender truck axles.  
The NKP 759 & 765 were so equipped.  The 765 was more recently  fitted with
rollers on all axles...

NKP S2, 2-8-4, Berks were delivered with rollers on the pony truck and driver-axles, only.
Yet, wartime-Reading 2100s were fitted with rollers on all the axles, EXCEPT, the 4 driving axles.
( On RDG 2100s made after the War, were all roller-bearing equipped -- like 2124...).

​W.

(* The smooth, back-side of the wheel is a bearing surface,  known as it's 'hub';
     the matching, flat face of the journal brass is called,  the " Hub-liner" ...
     they normally do not rub together continuously...
     Some RRs found ingenious ways to lubricate hub liners.
     Again, you'll have a steel, disk-like hub at the inside of the wheel,
      and mated to the brass's "hub-liner" , of the front surface on the axle bearing.
       You'll occasionally see engineers with a long-spout oil can reaching through
        the driver spokes to dribble oil down the face of the wheel hubs).. 



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/23 13:16 by wcamp1472.