Steam & Excursion > Last Coal powered train on the D&S monday in regular service

used up all the coal they had on hand; 481 will get converted to oil now

i guess there will be the occaision for test run on a  foreign line engines overhauled  in Durango

dan Wrote:
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> used up all the coal they had on hand; 481 will
> get converted to oil now
>
> i guess there will be the occaision for test run
> on a  foreign line engines overhauled  in
> Durango

So they can't get more coal?

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > used up all the coal they had on hand; 481 will
> > get converted to oil now
> >
> > i guess there will be the occaision for test
> run
> > on a  foreign line engines overhauled  in
> > Durango
>
> So they can't get more coal?

Of course they can! But,,,,,,,,,,,,why bother when all the steam locomotives will be oil fired, once the last one, i.e. #481, is converted to oil fuel?

Even though the Durango and Silverton is a national treasure, they have always been viewed as a little less authentic than say, the Cumbres and Toltec. It probably has a lot to do with location and their clientele, but honestly, there is still a lot of authenticity to the D&S. The switch to oil doesn't help that perception, but I begrudgingly accept the conditions in which they operate and the decision to stop burning coal. A severe fire from cinders can change the game real quick, but it seems hard to accept that they operated coal fired locomotives for about 130 years, but NOW it is a problem????

The lack of coal smoke and the accompanying aroma is a sad loss, but steam engines are still pretty cool.

Posted from Android

P Wrote:
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 A
> severe fire from cinders can change the game real
> quick, but it seems hard to accept that they
> operated coal fired locomotives for about 130
> years, but NOW it is a problem????
>
>
> Posted from Android

Pretty sure this is exactly THE reason for switching to oil. There was a major fire a few years ago, which then led to a lawsuit and fines. 

P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even though the Durango and Silverton is a
> national treasure, they have always been viewed
> as a little less authentic than say, the Cumbres
> and Toltec. It probably has a lot to do with
> location and their clientele, but honestly, there
> is still a lot of authenticity to the D&S. The
> switch to oil doesn't help that perception, but I
> begrudgingly accept the conditions in which they
> operate and the decision to stop burning coal. A
> severe fire from cinders can change the game real
> quick, but it seems hard to accept that they
> operated coal fired locomotives for about 130
> years, but NOW it is a problem????

What if the reason was because the railroad company was told by their insurance provider - convert to burning oil or loose your insurance?

Back when the D&S came close to burning down a subdivision in the area, there was legislative interest in shutting down the whole operation.

Posted from Android

P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A severe fire from cinders can change the game real
> quick, but it seems hard to accept that they
> operated coal fired locomotives for about 130
> years, but NOW it is a problem????

According to a report dated last May, the climate in Durango has gotten dry to the point that the city cannot count on the Florida and Animas rivers to reliably provide water.  Water storage was not an issue in the past, so there is little infrastructure for this purpose.  A pipeline to tap Lake Nighthorse was fast-tracked to make the water system more reliable.

Precipitation has declined nearly 20% in the region, and runoff into the Florida River watershed has dropped by 35% since the late eighties.  The Animas has not been hit as hard, but the downward trend is there as well.

So you have coal fired locomotives in an area that is drying out, and likely started a major fire a few years ago.  What happened for the previous 125 years doesn't matter as conditions change.

It is not difficult to see the logic in changing to a type of fuel that is far less likely to cause problems in an area that has been drying out.

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/24 08:06 by MaryMcPherson.

humans left the area before it got so dry!

the forest service has some oversight too!

Go visit the Mesa Verde cliff dwellings, the docents will tell you that they were abandoned
around 1400 because of dry conditions.

Out 

dan Wrote:
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> humans left the area before it got so dry!

1980 Durango Population: 11,649
2020 Durango Population: 19,071

I know you are attempting to reference pre-colonial population change, but the information dealt specifically with changes between the eighties and the present.  During that time, humans have hardly left the area.

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions

MaryMcPherson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> P Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A severe fire from cinders can change the game
> real
> > quick, but it seems hard to accept that they
> > operated coal fired locomotives for about 130
> > years, but NOW it is a problem????
>
> According to a report dated last May, the climate
> in Durango has gotten dry to the point that the
> city cannot count on the Florida and Animas rivers
> to reliably provide water.  Water storage was not
> an issue in the past, so there is little
> infrastructure for this purpose.  A pipeline to
> tap Lake Nighthorse was fast-tracked to make the
> water system more reliable.
>
> Precipitation has declined nearly 20% in the
> region, and runoff into the Florida River
> watershed has dropped by 35% since the late
> eighties.  The Animas has not been hit as hard,
> but the downward trend is there as well.
>
> So you have coal fired locomotives in an area that
> is drying out, and likely started a major fire a
> few years ago.  What happened for the previous
> 125 years doesn't matter as conditions change.
>
> It is not difficult to see the logic in changing
> to a type of fuel that is far less likely to cause
> problems in an area that has been drying out.

This area of the Southwest has a long record of protracted droughts.  They are nothing new.  The D&RG operated through a number of those protracted droughts without setting large scale fires.  What has changed is the forest and rangeland itself.  Over a century of fire suppression has turned all of the local forests into tinderboxes just looking for an ignition source.  Once ignited, a wildfire quickly "crowns out" into a large-scale wildfire that is largely uncontrollable.  Worse yet, the large-scale encroachment of land development and residential constrution on private land adjacent to the National Forests around Durango has only exacerbated the overuse of fire suppression on forest lands.  Anyone who says that the railroad was solely responsible for the wildfires that were started a few years ago is  completely ignorant of the century-plus of forest mismanagement that turned the forests into tinderboxes. 

It also can not be ignored that there is a large group of ignorant, evironmentalist extremist transplants who have infested the Durango area who despise the railroad and want it gone.  They want the right-of-way for a hiking and biking trail.  Most of them don't make their living in the local economy, so they don't care that permanently shutting down the D&S would devastate the local economy.  That would just mean fewer people and fewer tourists to impede their enjoyment of the local public lands.  Just watch, now that the D&S has converted to oil-firing their locomotives, the transplanted environmental zealots will just switch to a different tactic to get rid of the railroad.  Count on it.

One doesn’t have to be an “environmental zealot” to recognize that climate change is real. The drop in moisture from Colorado is a challenge all over the west and its impacts are problematic. The railroad is first and foremost a business that has to operate in the real world of 2023 and adapt and also be a good neighbor. I don’t get why that’s so hard for some people to grasp.

Posted from iPhone

MaryMcPherson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > humans left the area before it got so dry!
>
> 1980 Durango Population: 11,649
> 2020 Durango Population: 19,071
>
> I know you are attempting to reference
> pre-colonial population change, but the
> information dealt specifically with changes
> between the eighties and the present.  During
> that time, humans have hardly left the area.

Yes, and remember, this present State of "CALorado" was once the 1960's pleasant, peaceful, beautiful, mountainous, State of "Colorful Colorado" before being overaken by the massive relocating of West Coast residents and others.

I thought it was common where the railroads ran that many linside  areas were burned back by all the trains,  constantly singed, after they were built using all the close by accessible wood for construction, even the hills surrounding mine camps were cleared tor timbers, boards and firewood



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/24 19:33 by dan.