Steam & Excursion > The History of The High Iron Company 1966-1973

FINALLY - all my images and text were sent to my editor, Callie Revell, as of yesterday to create a working manuscript. Should be completed shortly. Next challenge is to find an honest publisher. Challenge thereafter is to find an honest marketing program to sell the book. I'm a lot closer than January 2023 when I started this project and I've gotten more help from any number of people wanting to see the book become a reality. I'm gratefull.
Hank Webber



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/24 09:42 by scoopdejour.

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Great news! Looking forward to your book being released! 

Really looking forward to this book.  I may have been a really young kid, but I witnessed some real steam magic thanks to HICO and crew.

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neat 4/20 post

Congratulations. Why did you sue your first publisher?

Victor Baird

Congrats. Cannot wait to read this book. Rode #759 on the trip from E'port to Jim Thorpe.
Photo at Bloomsbury, NJ.

rr caboose

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Hank -  Thank you for all of your efforts to put this together as I know it has not been easy!  I am really looking forward to having it when it is completed.  That was a great time period in my life that I will never forget  I hope to see you on June 22nd on the R&N steam trip!

Ron

I hate to say it but it will be far from the final history unless it covers the financial results of the excursion trains. I doubt High Iron Co. will disclose any costs and agreements with the railroad or their agreement terms.  I have riden hundred of steam excursion since 1958 and never heard if any ever made any money, but more were scheduled. And I was a close friend of John Willever, HIC Secretary, and per Ross Roland orders, never spoke about one dollar.   Now that the era of railroad and private steam excursion is over it would be nice to see what trips made money and which trips went negative. Why the big secret on financial results?  The era is over.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/24 06:21 by PlyWoody.

I hope PlyWoody is not implying that HICO "raked-in the cash !"

The revenue from ticket sales never equaled the true, total  costs of 
each excursion that HICO ran. But, since it was a privately held Company,
it's cash flow is a private matter, also.

Even today, as time passes, each year the costs of excursions increase exponentially,

I congratulate the Fort Wayne RR group for sustaining mainline steam 
into the 2020s.  It's good to see their success with keeping 765 running.
And I heartily approve of the application of roller bearings on ALL loco 
and tender(s)' axles of 765.   As war-babies, that order of Berks was built with 
Timken tapered 'rollers' on the critical axles: pilot truck & driver axles,
plain bearings on the rest.

​W.









 

If mainline excursions made money or large sums of it don’t you think there would be more mainline excursions?

Posted from iPhone

JOHNY5ALIVE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If mainline excursions made money or large sums of
> it don’t you think there would be more mainline
> excursions?
>
> Posted from iPhone
NO, because of the extremely high cost of the Liability Insurance.  This is the main reason why the big class one railroads do NOT want to operate any excursion trains whether they be diesel of steam.
John in White Marsh, Maryland



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/24 09:23 by ClubCar.

Completely inept performance in spite of my monthly payments.

Thanks Wes for your reply to "Woody". I couldn't have said it better!

ClubCar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JOHNY5ALIVE Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If mainline excursions made money or large sums
> of
> > it don’t you think there would be more
> mainline
> > excursions?
> >
> > Posted from iPhone
> NO, because of the extremely high cost of the
> Liability Insurance.  This is the main reason why
> the big class one railroads do NOT want to operate
> any excursion trains whether they be diesel of
> steam.
> John in White Marsh, Maryland

I think you missed the premise.  The suggestion was that IF excursions made money.  Seeing as insurance is figured into the cost, making money would be after that expense.  It is a hypothetical... IF they made money.  Not the reality, which is that they really don't.

IF excursions made money, maybe a Class I would want to do it as they are (allegedly) in the business of making a profit.  Of course in today's era of genuflecting at the alter of the Wall Street PSR raiders, the reaction would probably be "They don't make ENOUGH profit so BE GONE!  Before someone drops a house on you too!"

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions

Part of the 'insurance' excuse is that there is no competition 
in the risk assignment business, for tourist excursion business.
There also are very few providers in the excursion business.
There are so few clients seeking coverage. 

Other forms of transportation all have established risk-records that reflect 
actual risks as annual, incidents per million passenger-miles.  
Excursions haven't even  reached even half of that, in 50 years.  
Our numbers ars not statistically significant.
So, insurance porividers get to charge whatever they want.
Even Amtrak's 'numbers' of incident's are really low.
 
The other facts at work are that there are not a statistically significant 
'incidents' to generate a reliable data base for probability calculations.
Excursions don't kill a lot of people.  About 1 every 20 years, and 
those are virtually all trespassers.

So, the premiums.charged for "assuming the risk" are all retained by the 
insurance Cos.  There haven't been any massive pay-outs --- ever!
And the 'deductible' amounts are high-enough that the insurance companies
never have to write the check...
What's not to like? 

Even hanging out the windows or open "Dutch Doors" have never cost
a railfan a broken fingernail, or a lost telephoto lens.  When was the last 
time anybody "was lost" off the back platform of an open observation car?

Yes, there was an idiot who crawled on top of a private car in Penn Station,
NY, 40 years ago --- he was electrocuted by the low catenary --- 12,000 volts
60-cycle AC.  It will reach out and grab you, if closer than 3 feet!
He intended to startle departing passengers...
He succeeded at that endeavor, but he got fried in the act.  
No lawsuit ensued.  

I think another idiot tried climbing up the front of C&O 614, while in
DL&W Terminal, Jersey City, under high voltage catenary.
BAM!

​W.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/24 13:38 by wcamp1472.

rkennedy2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really looking forward to this book.  I may have
> been a really young kid, but I witnessed some real
> steam magic thanks to HICO and crew.

OUTSTANDING PIC!! Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to the book as well. There’s nothing quite like the crack of the exhaust of a Nickel Plate Berk! Even in excursion service, it’s an instantly definable gate.

I recently rediscovered “Steel Rails Under Thundering Skies” on YouTube. Even having not heard the LP for some 45 years, as soon as the exhaust came into focus, I told myself, “Here comes the 759!!”

Mark V.
“The Fort” in Indiana

Posted from iPhone

Glad to fill you in PlyWoody. Under the High Iron Company banner ( HICO ) all of our trips lost money if you're comparing the total costs against the ticket revenues. I was in the fortunate position trading on the floor of the commodity futures exchange to allocate winning trades into the HICO account as needed to cover the excursion losses. As an educated guess on an annual basis the average HICO excursion ( not including the 1969 Golden Spike Centennial Limited, GSCL ) generated about 65% of its direct expenses from ticket revenues and 35% from trading gains. This enabled us to do a lot of things towards making each trip a first class experience for all involved and that quickly led the general public to know that the HICO ran a first rate show and thus every trip sold out. 

    The GSCL lost approx. $300,000.00  ( 1969 dollars= about $ 1,200,000.00 current dollars) It took HICO approx. 3 years to pay all those bills but all got paid fully.

    I calculated that over its 7 year lifespan HICO needed approx. $ 450,000.00 ( 1970's dollars= about $ 1,600,000.00 current dollars) in trading income to cover the excursion losses and end up with all bills paid. 

    If I had it to do all over again would I change anything? Not a thing as the memories produced are priceless. 

    Thanks for asking. Ross Rowland, Founder, CEO, part time hogger, HICO. 
    

AMEN !

​W.

( Part of what made those early trips so popular was the ability to  
  use CNJ regular-service commuter coaches, OPEN WINDOWS,
  steam heat, and head-end electricity for lighting.  

 We had full-length trains,  of all 'open window' coaches,
  except a few extra fare cars, observation cars and the like.
  Our volunteer service crews spent days prior to the excursions in
   cleaning all the train windows, inside & out... as well as cleaning all
   the trash from coaches, before being returned to commuter service.  
   The commuters typically were amazed and appreciative of the clean
    windows, and the tidy coach  interiors, on their daily trips.
    
      Ross is a Master at conceiving of LARGE Projects, but he is also.
      a Master at The Details.... His leadership style is the frame the objectives,
       get Team's commitments to the Project, and provide the facilities, the
       support and the MONEY to accomplish the goals.  At the very earliest stages
        of his bold concepts; Ross, first of ALL befriend's top officers, or largest 
        individual stock-holder.  So that when bureaucracy intermediaries attempt
       to over-reach their authority, Ross asked 'how High do I have to go, to relieve
        you of  your specific concern?"  

       Typically, they would defer to, probably, their Superintendent.  
       10 minutes later, that Superintendent would have contacted
       the obstreperous 'official', and everything went smooth, after that.

      They became magic words for me also, as we needed to be 'promptly 
       moved' with tight schedules.  I would ask the 'blocking' official, "How 
       high do I have to go, to relieve you of your "concerns"?  
       in the 60's and 70s, before cell phones were common, I could reach 
       Ross by land-line phone, explain the 'hold-up' --- and in short order the request 
      that I had made was granted.  

      More than once, I'd get questioned by yardmasters, etc.: 
       "Who do you KNOW, that could order that X be accomplished?"  
     
     Ross ALWAYS started with the top RR officers, many RR top executives were
      friends with Ross, even "outside" the RR environments.
     Two early supporters were Bob Claytor and Graham Claytor,  heads of their two 
      railroads.  As we dealt with company officers in the 'field ', the guys in the field
      knew where our  orders were coming from.  That made accomplishment of our
      time schedules very easy.  
      
     "How 'high' do I have to go, to satisfy your concern?"  became
      the magic words that cleared "bureaucratic roadblocks", that awaited 
      us at junctions and interchanges...  All before Cell Phones, it's quicker, now 
      
     At a critical time, in 1968,  in preparation for 'Steam in the Snow",
      2 weekends of Double Headers, & 10 days before the sold-out trips,
       the 2 original locos were pressed into service as temporary 'stationary boilers'
      in the city of Reading, Pa.  They were unavailable for our 2,
      previously scheduled, and sold-out excursions.

     Ross went to work.  He arranged with Strasburg RR to lease the service 
     of their newly acquired #90, 2-10-0 ( from Great Western ) and 
     4-6-2 , # 127(8), from Steamtown Foundation, Bellows Falls Vermont.
     Ross arranged for me to fly to Vermont and ride the towed-127 to New Jersey,
     in FEBRUARY!   We had a little over one-week, before our double-header, first trip!

    At, Wilkes-Barre, Pa., on the Saturday before the Big Trip, the Yardmaster,
    told me, that the train scheduled to depart shortly for NJ , would NOT be 
     handling the dead-in-tow steamer, and our move would be scheduled for a Monday,
      PM departure.   I called Ross from the CNJ yard office, explained the change of 
      schedule, and he said he'd get into it.

     20 minutes later, the Yardmaster's phone rang,  I could only hear half of the 
     conversation --- a lot of "Yes, sir"s, and '"Right-away, sir's "..  
     
     Soon he hung up, and asked me: "Who do you know? ".
     "That was the Superintendent's office, and they ordered me to move you out, tonite !"
    
        20 minutes later, 127 was behind the diesels, and we headed for E'Port!
      And the following Weekends, we ran two "Steam in the Snow" double headers ---
      no. 90's only Mainline Fan trips.
      
      When I get to Strasburg RR, every now and then,  I always walk up to
       #90, and renew our friendship ... Its an extraordinary engine!
       Thank you, Lynn Moedinger, for saying "Yes"...

       127(8), was abused at Gettysburg,  dropped its crown sheet and had a
       controlled, sudden, boiler pressure-relief incident. 
        it's now at the Age of Steam Roundhouse, Ohio --- and when I visit,
        I always go to 127(8) and remember the wonderful and extraordinary
        trips I had with her... Hundreds of wonderful memories and unique experiences ).
     
      

 



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/24 12:02 by wcamp1472.

Thanks for your many continuing investments in the hobby, Ross.  Without that big money flowing into 614, nothing would have happened.

MaryMcPherson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ClubCar Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > JOHNY5ALIVE Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > If mainline excursions made money or large
> sums
> > of
> > > it don’t you think there would be more
> > mainline
> > > excursions?
> > >
> > > Posted from iPhone
> > NO, because of the extremely high cost of the
> > Liability Insurance.  This is the main reason
> why
> > the big class one railroads do NOT want to
> operate
> > any excursion trains whether they be diesel of
> > steam.
> > John in White Marsh, Maryland
>
> I think you missed the premise.  The suggestion
> was that IF excursions made money.  Seeing as
> insurance is figured into the cost, making money
> would be after that expense.  It is a
> hypothetical... IF they made money.  Not the
> reality, which is that they really don't.
>
> IF excursions made money, maybe a Class I would
> want to do it as they are (allegedly) in the
> business of making a profit.  Of course in
> today's era of genuflecting at the alter of the
> Wall Street PSR raiders, the reaction would
> probably be "They don't make ENOUGH profit so BE
> GONE!  Before someone drops a house on you too!"

Thanks Mary… you perfectly conveyed what I was trying to say.