Steam & Excursion > 1522 vs 2102, sound-wise

I've played the videos of 1522, and am fascinated by crisp, loud 
stack talk.

There 5:major factors contributing to the intensity of each 
exhaust-CHUGG.

> Oil-burner vs. Coal Grates
> Proportions of Venturi-jet dimensions: size of jet-opening at tip of 
   exhaust nozzle and relative proportions of the jet size to the diameters
   of the expanding-taper of the upper smokestack 
> Valve port dimensions, and the timing of the port dimensions.
> The dimensions of the crosshead lever that opens the steam ports,
   prior to, and ahead-of the completion of a piston's stroke:  called the 
   'Lead' ( say: "Leed"),  The lead allows for early steam admission of each 
    stroke.   Lead is set on the drawing boards of the loco builders. 
    on locos with the common types of radial valve gears, Baker or Walschaert,
    are designed with fixed-lead dimensions.
> 2 injectors vs  the combination of 1 injector & 1 feedwater heater/pump arrangement.

    Valves, contd.
    A typical fixed-lead number could be 1/2".  So that, when the piston is all
    the way at the END of it's stroke --- the 'dead-center'--- its steam admission
    port is open by 1/2".   The lead is said to be " one-half inch".
    
   Passenger locos tend to have wider fixed-leads than freight-only engines.
   The lead in locos is comparable to the spark-advance used in gasoline engines.
    Gas engines begin the gas-charge burning before the piston gets to the top 
    of it's compression stroke.  But, auto engines use variable spark leads,  
    depending on engine RPMs.  As RPMs increase, the amount of spark-lead,
    also increases.

Some spool valves have slight variations in the width of the 
lobes on each end of the spool valves.  Some spool valves are 
proportioned so that when centered, the spool lobes are wider than 
the port openings, over-lapping the ports completely --- allowing for
steam expansion against the pistons...


But, the most significant factor is 2 injectors vs. 1 'gun' plus a
feedwater heating and pumping system.

Feedwater heaters are fed exhaust steam, from below the exhaust nozzle,
to a heat exchanger in order to pre-heat the feedwater to the boiler ..... to reduce
the effect of cold water being pumped into the hot water of the boiler.

The volume of the steam pipes feeding the heat exchanger, increases the volume 
of the space for steam to expand --- before heading up the stack....also lowering
the back pressure and affecting sound up the stack. 

Being FWH-equipped, the 2102's exhaust is loud --- being a coal burner and pulling air
through the grates; but, not as loud or as crisp as an oil-burning engine with 2 injectors.
So, you would find 2102's sound very satisfying, but not the same qualities as 1522.

I would definitely reccomend  that you come to Pennsylvania, and ride behind 2102.
Dont miss the opportunity.  Rambles families and railroaders are friendly and enjoying 
the events together--- you will be welcomed by many RRers and many steam folks and 
retired engineers and their families. ---- all drawn to the SHOW that 2102 always gives us.

As an engineer, you will be especially thrilled at the skills used to climb those,
long, steep, Pennsylvania anthracite-country hills.  2102 was built for the fight...
and she wins, every time. Fully operational booster, sanders, and rail-washers!

Please join our happy Rambles Families, you'll be welcomed and encouraged to
take the open-window seat.  I'll buy your ticket, if that would help.... and maybe
I'll join the trip that you choose.

Come and enjoy, and become a friend of 2102, she always responds..to fresh admirers.

I was her caretaker and fireman for 5 years.  We carried thousands of paying fans,
and thrilled thousands more, as they stood transfixed by her sound, speed and power.
She taught me a whole encyclopedia's worth of knowledge..

Wes.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/24 18:49 by wcamp1472.

Thank you Wes! While I've yet to experience 2102, I will say in 1990 I was at the photo runby for 1522 at Rolla, MO and her stack talk actually brought pain to my ears. I've never experienced that with any other steam locomotive.

That was my first time running on the main and to say I was nervous would be an understatement.  Leaving Newburg, you have a bit over a mile to get a run for Rolla Hill.  Our train was over the tonnage limit called for on the old Frisco Employee timetables.  It was miserably hot.
I got up to track speed (35) and hit the beginning of the grade and could really feel the momentum drop.  It finally settled down to a 15MPH fight the rest of the hill and dropped to 12 when we went through "Coleman's Cut".  If you get through that, you're home free.
1522 never missed a beat, just got down and made herself heard.  I could see fans covering their ears as we got to them. I had the booster idling just in case but no need for it.  I never wore ear protection and when the engine got in the cut it hurt my ears but I loved it.
That was my Dad's division for many years, firing and promoted in 1940 and I fully understood why he loved running steam like he did.
1522 is not only very loud, but the exhaust has a very sharp crack to it.  It is unempeded by anything.  No diversion for feedwater heaters, nothing in the smokebox but nozzle, petticoat and stack.
Jim Boyd told me that she just wasn't loud enough to wake the dead, but woke the cremated.

K8DTI Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you Wes! While I've yet to experience 2102,
> I will say in 1990 I was at the photo runby for
> 1522 at Rolla, MO and her stack talk actually
> brought pain to my ears. I've never experienced
> that with any other steam locomotive.

Having experienced both locomotives wide open and working upgrade, I have to say that 2102 was louder... though not by much.  Just a slight edge.  2102 is the only locomotive that got my hands over my ears while trackside.

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions

I have heard 1522 and I like her exhaust.  But admit I have not heard it under the conditions as described.   It reminded me of what I was told by some T&P engineers regarding the 2-10-4's 60% cutoff  climbing Ranger Hill with a heavy train.  "Loud", really loud, and some of that cracking mentioned about 1522.  The Reading engine in the videos I have seen appear not to have a sharp exhaust.  It's loud though. I am not complaining its great to have operating steam any where.
Reading  425 certainly has a most pleasing bark once it gets rolling.  Love to hear it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/24 09:11 by tomstp.

During a Topeka Railroad days excurstion in the 90's, I piloted 1522 on a round trip to Emporia. There is a pretty good hill between Wakarusa and Carbondale on the Topeka Sub. We stopped at the crest of the grade, unloaded passengers for the runby, then  backed down to the bottom, almost to the Wakarusa river. When we got stopped behind the signal, we headed back up the hill for the runby. The Road Foreman was along with me, and he insisted I wear the green headsets the rest of the crew had, but I did take them off for a while going up that hill wide open at 10-12 mph, and it did make a lot of racket, but I thought all steam engines were like that when they were struggling on hills. We did severalmore run-bys in both directions, and it was happily watching and listening to that thing do the business. If I remember, we had 22 cars and the train was sold out. When the engineer had his hands full, I did get to use the whistle for some of the crossings, and that might just have been why I started collecting long bell three chime flat tops.

MaryMcPherson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Having experienced both locomotives wide open and
> working upgrade, I have to say that 2102 was
> louder... though not by much.  Just a slight
> edge.  2102 is the only locomotive that got my
> hands over my ears while trackside.

I rode behind 2102 this past summer. It was definitely the loudest locomotive I’ve ever experienced. The exhaust bouncing off the rock walls had my ears ringing more than when shooting rifles without ear protection. I was actually very surprised at how loud it was several coaches back.

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I was on the ground during the run by standing next to TM Chris Cornett, still have yet to hear a steam locomotive louder than 1522 coming up Wakarusa hill that day!!!

SF

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