Steam & Excursion > You’re engineer of passenger train, at speed….

You're the engineer of a steam-powered passenger train, at cruising 
speed... your train goes into "Emergency".   What do you immediately DO?
How do you know what caused the Emergency application?

Yes, I've been through such scenarios, safely; and had good training.

​W.


 

#1 Start cursing profusely
#2 Bail off the independent brake
#3 Reduce the throttle to almost closed
#4 Look (back) in the side mirror

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're the engineer of a steam-powered passenger
> train, at cruising 
> speed... your train goes into "Emergency".
>   What do you immediately DO?
> How do you know what caused the Emergency
> application?
>
> Yes, I've been through such scenarios, safely; and
> had good training.
>
> ​W.

1) Bail off the independent brake!

2) Reduce the throttle, but NOT shut off, until you stop.

3) Place the automatic brake valve in emergency.

 

nsrlink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> #1 Start cursing profusely
> #2 Bail off the independent brake
> #3 Reduce the throttle to almost closed
> #4 Look (back) in the side mirror

How many steam locomotives were equipped with a "side mirror"?

How about if it's a break-in-two, somehere back there?
How Do you react?   
( Especially since you dont know in a few seconds what's 
    actually at work?)


In my experiences about "slowing" (after an Emergency app)
is the WRONG.. thing to do.

​W.

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many steam locomotives were equipped with a
> "side mirror"?

FFS, I dunno gumpy, some of them were.  I haven't been on all of them and neither have you.
4449 has one, so I'm sure it's on there for someone to use it for a reason other than putting makeup on.
Look out the window if it suits you. geez.

---

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about if it's a break-in-two, somehere back
> there?

Yeah but what if it's not a break in two?

After all that, I'd ask the conductor if he pulled the chord or knows what happend. If not, it is time for him/her and the brakeman to inspect the train and see if it can be determined what caused it. Parted air hose? And do we still have all our cars coupled together? <G>

Victor Baird



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/25 17:43 by wabash2800.

nsrlink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How many steam locomotives were equipped with a
> > "side mirror"?
>
> FFS, I dunno gumpy, some of them were.  I haven't
> been on all of them and neither have you.
> 4449 has one, so I'm sure it's on there for
> someone to use it for a reason other than putting
> makeup on.
> Look out the window if it suits you. geez.

Well smart mouth, only a few steam locomotives in the modern, i.e. excursion era, had a side mirror on the Engineer's side.In the photo above, Doyle added that. Back in the days of regular steam service, there were no "side mirrors". 

Now, if by "look out the window" you mean that the Engineer should be LOOKING BACK, maybe AFTER he got everything under control, and stopped, that would work. Have you ever operated a steam locomotive at speed?

Strtetch 'em out, bail 'em off, keep going as far as you can to make sure nothing is gonna run into you

Funny you should ask.  We broke in two with a 1522 excursion due to bilevel cars that bounced enough on bad track to uncouple.  Still not sure how that happened with the Tightlock couplers but it did.
Jeff Schmid was running at the time and he did the right thing.  Bailed off the engine, put the 26 brake valve in emergency and kept running until it was radioed up that the hind end had stopped before bringin the head end to a stop.
Scary situation if you think that someone could have been going between the two cars that broke in two.  Wouldn't wish that on anyone.
1522 has a mirror on the wind wing on the engineer's side, put there when we restored her.

Some of the best responses to
a complex situation.

Thanks for the submissions.
And, yes the right thing to do
is to accelerate as fast as possible.

Until you’re sure that the separated
portion has stopped.

Loco brakes also go into Emergency,
At a slower build-up of brake cylinder
pressure.

However, It’s always to be expected
that the engineer manually keeps
the locomotive’s released & brakes away from the wheels… until stopped & holding the train.

W.
Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/25 20:15 by wcamp1472.

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about if it's a break-in-two, somehere back
> there?
> How Do you react?   
> ( Especially since you dont know in a few seconds
> what's 
>     actually at work?)
>
>
> In my experiences about "slowing" (after an
> Emergency app)
> is the WRONG.. thing to do.
>
> ​W.

One item comes to mind is how violent is it in the cab? Know lots of tonnage behind you is pushing hard to keep thing moving? I after reading understand the need to keep some power on to prevent run ins if possible with the parted sections.

1. Say a prayer
2. Widen out on the throttle as you activate full sanders
3. Bail off independent, move automatic to emergency position 
4. Keep praying
5. Open cylinder cocks
6. when stopped, close throtlle, apply independent brake.

     I've been through 3 of them and the above worked well.

    Ross Rowland 

A couple of rules are at work, in case of a 'break-in-two:

The loco coupled to the cars has added mass, compared 
to a similar number of cars, rolling without a locomotive.

If the split is approximately 50/50,  the lighter mass cars witl
be braked to a stop quicker than the section coupled to the loco.

If the split is approximately 70/30, loco coupled to 70% of cars,
will tend to take longer to stop than the 30% cars.  
They'll stop more quickly ---- a good thing.

If the split is 30/70, then the loco and cars will
stop sooner than the cars with the greater mass... 
thus, you could have a separation followed by a collision.

So, if you don't know the location of the break-in-two, 
give it as MUCH POWER as possible ---- you might be lucky,
and have the fewer numbers cars ---- and you'll get further down the tracks,
avoiding a run-in.

in case of a separation with a heavier number of cars coupled to loco,
Full Throttle Power, with the heavier train-section, might reduce the severity  
of a secondary collision... saving more lives.  

So, always being prepared to apply full power instantly, is the best thing

With break-in-twos, and running with a BIG loco, is favorable --- to 
make get-aways quicker.  With NKP Berk #759, we had a break-in-two
with a train of 17 coaches ..... When we had the break-in two, it was the 
3 cars of the train..

Instantly, senior engineer Charlie Strunk, yanked the Berk's throttle WIDE-OPEN...
The engine jumped to life, and we were quickly going much faster --- even with 
14 cars in 'Full Emergency' brakes on --- full pressure--.
14 coaches were no comparison to pulling 70+ freight cars .... 
So, 759, for a few moments got to feel the power that a heavy train 
can produce.... and BOY! did we MOVE.

Again, at the break-in-two, Charlie had no idea which "mass" we were connected-to.
So, by going to full-power witjh 759 was the MOST SAFE action Charlie could take...
then, get stopped.

However, the results can be MUCH different if hauled by a lighter steam loco.
A less powerful engine cannot get as much power into the train, unless there 
are only a few cars being hauled, to make-up the train.

Big Engines ( 4-8-2s and larger) on excursion trains are the more safe path....
you can handle anything, with the Big Engine, hauling excursions.  
Safety First.

​W.

( Note:  With current air brake technology systems, placing the 
              locomotive's  Automatic  [larger handle] Brake Valve into
              'Emergency"   position stops the regular Train-Line air flow ----
                into an empty trainline.
              
              A separated train "looks like" a low air pressure condition
               going into the train,  so that the Valve's regulator stays wide-open...
                trying to charge a train, with no cars...  

               ALL cars send their reservoirs' stored pressures towards the cars' air brake pistons. 

               Always Placing the loco's handle in Emergency position, after an Emergency Stop,
              prevents wasted air flow, from also depleting the Main Reservoirs on the locomotive,
              with the freely-blowing air ------ out the loco's separated train airline .

                So, to save maximum loco air pressure, the engineer is 
                conserving his air supply, because moving the brake handle
                to it's "Emergency" position, which closes-off the air, to the 'charging-port'.

                Emergency applications can come from several sources, 
                  including passenger cars --- once activated they cannot be 
                  shut-off, except by RR personnel and tools.)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/25 16:13 by wcamp1472.

Re BAB, above

“What’s it feel like in the cab…?”

Not much change …. But, the airbrakes go into “Emergency”, and
the train slows .

You don’t know what the actual cause is, but the ‘worst-case” scenario is an inadvertent train separation.

So, assuming the worst case, try to
accelerate, rapidly …

If you DO accelerate measurably, that’s ‘good news’ because you are
pulling ahead of the “isolated” cars…

Then can begin the stop.
There’ll be a lot of train crew trying to figure the cause of the Emergency

Posted from iPhone

Re BAB, above

“What’s it feel like in the cab…?”

Not much change …. But, the airbrakes go into “Emergency”,
and the train slows .

You don’t know what the actual cause is, but the ‘worst-case” scenario is
an inadvertent train separation.   So, assuming the worst case, try to
accelerate, rapidly …

If you DO accelerate measurably, that’s ‘good news’ because you are
pulling ahead of the “isolated” cars…
Then, you can begin the stop.

There’ll be a lot of train crew trying to figure the source of the “Emergency”
application.

Could be the Engineer, could be a separated train line connector
between the cars, could be originated by a passenger pulling
the emergency cord, could be a train-separation, etc.
When it happens, you don't know the cause---- so, presume the worst,
and try to out-run the condition.

So, once the cause is found, repair the condition and restore brake pipe pressure…
perform complete air brakes physical check --- at each car--- check for complete
application and release of every cars' braking system, both sides of the train…
ensure all cars are recharged, FULLY, and after a successful set of completed air-tests,
specified ‘leakage’ , etc.,  you can proceed to destination.

In 'leakage testing', you're observing the rate that each car's air reservoirs are 
reaching a full-charge state.

You test the system's pressure by closing off the supply of air to the train,
and observe the Brake-Pipe gauge to see how the 'state of charge' IS?
If the BP gauge continues to show rapidly falling BP pressure,  the cars 
at the back of the train are nowhere near fully-charge .

Return the loco pressure to continue to fully recharge every car in the train.  
You'll find lowest BP pressure at the rear cars.

Today's. Rear-End , red -flashing device sends a BP radio signal to the engineer,
so he can "physically see" when the Train-Line is at its "fully charged" state.
No more need for a stop-watch...

W.



Posted from iPhone



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/25 22:39 by wcamp1472.

Many thanks fo West snd Jacks responses.

Well that was quite the response from both W and Jack thanks so much for all the detail.  Those deatails from people who have been there done that is what makes reading TO great thanks very much. Boyd 

Had this happen to me on a 10 car train at 4AM. We were pulling tender first with a Pacfic, about 60 mph. First thing I did was look back and see if there was a train still attached. Bailed off engine brake, then closed the throttle. I was surprised how quickly the train stopped. Being tender first the water all flowed back over the crown sheet.

Looking back over the train you might have thought it was a bunch of POWs escaping from the train. You see this train had been an extra to the Blues festival. Passengers not feeling any pain pulled the emergency brake as it rolled through their home town. The first time was a surprise, the next 2 times were not.

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