Steam & Excursion > V&T maybe going under again (the railway not the railroad)

In a nutshell the article says the railway section just does not generate enough money to pay for itself

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2025/feb/24/lawmakers-mull-request-to-study-struggling-histori/

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/25 12:29 by rgcw5.

For clarification: this is in regards to the county and city run Virginia and Truckee Railway, not the private Virginia and Truckee Railroad that operates in Virginia City proper.       

It is important to distinquish the V&TRy that the article is talking about from the V&TRR that celebrates it's 50th anniversary nest year.

The V&T RR was started by Bob Gray in 1976 and has been runb by his son Tom Gray for the last 30+ years.  That railroad is going strong.  Their track is between Gold Hill and Virginia City, Nevada.  Tom's railroad owns all the passenger cars used on both railroads and V&T 2-8-0 #29 and soon to be operational 2-8-2 #30.

The article discusses only the V&TRy that is owned by the State of Nevada V&T Commission.  That operation owns the track from Gold Hill down to the edge of Carson CIty.  The only equipment the V&TRy owns is former McCloud 2-8-2 #18.

Tom Gray has an agreement with the Commisison that has him store and restore #18 for the commission as well as to operate the trains with Tom's passenger equipment.

It is important that we do not confuse the two railroads.

Martin

Without funding from Storey County and Carson City, the attraction would be losing around $100,000 to $150,000 a year, Mitchell said. With the funding, it operates around $140,000 in the black.

I don't understand the numbers that it would lose $150k a year without help, but with funding it makes $140k.  Complaining over a few hundred thousand seems insignificant in the scheme of things.  The railroad does carry people and I bet a number of the people opt to stay in local hotels generating bed tax that would paint a more rosier picture if that is taken into account.   It may not be the money maker they envisioned, but subsidizing the railroad is probably not all that much considering the benefits it brings.

Perhaps they sell the whole thing to Gray at scrap value and he can run enough to make it go without the expense of the bureaucracy.

 

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

The very best part of the railroad for scenery - down into Carson Canyon, never got built.  That was the 'oh, wow' part from the beginning.  It's a BLM access road and it turned into a property rights fight for access even thought it was hardly passable by a jeep.

It says the railroad gets funding from Carson City and the County.  The article says the county is supplying $250,000 per year through a special sales tax of 0.25%.  Carson City took out a special Bond that added an additional 0.125% sales tax.  But the bond will be payed off in December.  Does that mean that Carson City will not have any payments required for the V&T after December?  The special taxes were created to rebuild the V&T.  If not used for the V&T as intended can they really be used for road repair or will the taxes be eliminated (doubtful).  Seems like they may have to go back to the voters to decide. 

I wonder what the costs of having a separate commission are as oppposed to leasing the whole railroad to the Grays.  A couple of commission employee salaries plus the cost of renting the railcars would eat up most of the $250,000.  Eliminating the overhead of having the separate commission could make the railroad profitable if only the Grays operated it.  It would be interesting to see the whole ballance sheet.

I think that's half the problem, along with the fact that where are the station is located is like out in the middle of nowhere next to a landfill...

Not best place to pick up people, however if they ran a garbage train from Virginia City down to the dump.....

Posted from Android

Bureaucracy, therein lies the root problem.
Always!
Gonut

Several comments, and I've ridden both lines:

--when I rode the long line from US 50 (Mound House), I really enjoyed it, but.................the male narrator on the train WOULD NOT STOP TALKING.  My God, please, be quiet for a while--let me just feel the breeze, hear the engine and whistle, and imagine the timelessness of this area.  Please stop talking about every arcane detail you can think of.  Endless, endless jabbering over the microphone.  It got so annoying that I went up and asked for some "peace and quiet" so we could enjoy the ride.  Other passengers thanked me.  That alone was a BIG turn off--my female companion was REALLY turned off by it all.

--the turn around times are bad.  You ride the train all the way to Virginia City, which is a MAJOR tourist attraction, and you have, what 3.5-4 hours before the return trip??   And that's taking the earliest train!  I wrote the railway and mentioned this, asking for a later return time so people could really explore VC, then dine, then walk back down to the terminal.  Nope, "this is our schedule."  OK........then next time, I'll drive.  I need more than 4 hours, INCLUDING walking to / from the station, to enjoy VC.  I guarantee you that turns away alot of prospective passengers--give them more time in VC to relax and see it!

--offer a package (I didn't see one at the time).  Ride, dine and stay overnight in VC, return the next day.  That could be a good driver for more tourism and ridership.  Or add in a mine tour, which is right near the station.  Come on, leverage your greatest asset and build ridership!  The train could stop at Gold Hill, where you can dine and stay overnight, or further up in VC, where other places are available.

--they need to seek some outside advice about marketing, in my opinion.

Coach

 

Yes I agree with Coach my wife and I drove to the town, spent several hours walking around. Would have been very nice to have better train service to and from rather than drive up. Also wonder what it would take to complete the railroad further into Carson City? Is that a dead issue? And thanks Martin for breaking the whole thing down which was much needed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/25 07:49 by BAB.

Yuh know the "Hindsight is 20/20" thing?  Never mind that by the time they tore down the Carson City roundhouse
the line East was built over. So, bottom of the hill. You have a quarry road right over the ROW and then you have
the BLM/US Geologic buildings right smack dab in the area that should be the station area. We could probably
DOGE the Fed buildings but the quarry road (space problem) would be an issue. Again as mentioned, it's two major
negatives present, first indeed it'd be the best part of the trip and second, the acess to the trip would be much closer to
downtown Carson City and right off Hwy 60. Again, more 20/20.

Out 

BAB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also wonder what
> it would take to complete the railroad further
> into Carson City? Is that a dead issue? And thanks
> Martin for breaking the whole thing down which was
> much needed.

Bottom line: money, and the fact the railway hasn't really looked for investors (at least from what I know) the project remains stagnant

Posted from Android

I rode the long portion of the line about 2 years ago and asked the crew the same question, will the railroad ever go to Carson City and/or the state railroad museum?  They said no, due to the high coast of construction  (~$50 million) and the numerous grade crossings that would have to be built. It is a scenic train, but as others have said, you have to drive out to the middle of nowhere to catch it, near the landfill, and your time in Virg City is somewhat limited. 

if the rail line could be extended to a more accessible location, or they offered an overnight option, I would think ridership would increase dramatically. But bureaucracy!  Dave

rgcw5 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BAB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Also wonder what
> > it would take to complete the railroad further
> > into Carson City? Is that a dead issue? And
> thanks
> > Martin for breaking the whole thing down which
> was
> > much needed.
>
> Bottom line: money, and the fact the railway
> hasn't really looked for investors (at least from
> what I know) the project remains stagnant
>
> Posted from Android

Thanks for your answer