Nostalgia & History > PCC streetcar in Roseville

Was driving by the north side of UP's Roseville yard, passing what appears to be a freight car scrap yard, and saw a PCC streetcar carbody poking above the cinder block wall at the edge of the property.

The car has the number 4472 painted on it.

Anyone know what this car is and it's future?

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It's an ex-Toronto PCC. It was stored in Eastshore's yard in Oakland, CA for awhile 1991-1993 or so, then was moved.

It has a l-o-t of rust; you can see through to the interior in some places near the floor level.

I don't know who its owner is. Someone else may be able to add more info.

Norm

The "Preserved North American Electric Railway Cars" database indicates that 4472 belonged to the Tahoe Valley project, which had several ex-SF Muni PCC's sitting in a wooded area on Highway 50 south of Lake Tahoe. No indication as to whether it went to the Tahoe area and came back down, or never made it up the hill. The entry implies that this was not one of the PCC's that Muni imported in the 1970's to help keep streetcar service running during BART/Muni Metro construction.

For some unknown reason Dobbas traded their SP passenger car that was an office for this car and the other ex muni car sitting where they park their trailers. I believe they got the short end of the deal on this one.

A friend of mine I contacted yesterday about this car, tells me the Tahoe group also got 4404, a sister car to 4472. He tells me they both got to Tahoe, but has no idea of when/how/why this car is now in Roseville.

The Tahoe group once had a larger number of ex-SF Muni 1000's and some 1100's. I think they have given up on their plans in that area; but I'm just guessing on that. Some of the 1000's have now been sold back to Muni. At least two of them are in fact back in SF already. Two 1100's (ex-St Louis Public Service before the Muni) are being shipped from Tahoe to San Diego of all places, where they will run as historic cars after restoration. They are in transit this week.

Since San Diego once had PCC streetcars and some are still in existence, this has brought up the question of why San Diego Trolley doesn't restore their own heritage equipment. At least one is still on display in the LA area. Also, some San Diego cars ended up in El Paso, where they ran until service ended there. Now they are stored near the airport. However all those cars are apparently in worse condition, and are an earlier generation PCC (air electric) vs. these newer cars (all electric). There's probably more to it than that, but that's all I know about.

Re the 2 San Diego PCC's going from Tahoe to San Diego: I got a little more info this morning if anyone's interested. The two cars are ex-Muni 1122 which was ex-SLPS 1716, and ex-Muni 1123 which was ex-SLPS 1728. Just FWIW if someone wants to know.

Thanks,
Norm

Two original San Diego PCC's (508 and 528) are preserved at Orange Empire Ry Museum. Neither is in running condition, and 528 sat for many years at the Del Mar Fairgrounds (right near the ocean). There was some discussion about moving one of these cars to San Diego for the opening of the first light rail route in 1981, but rumor had it that the agency running the line at that time was not interested in the old cars. One obvious concern is that the PCCs are single ended, and San Diego's modern light rail units are double ended. For the current status of the cars that went to El Paso, check the Preserved North American Electric Railway Cars website.

Old Pueblo Trolley also has an ex-Toronto PCC. We haven't been able to do much with it since it's a single end car-not really suited to our operating situation. Last time I saw it, one side had been heavily tagged by the local vandals.