Nostalgia & History > SP Mars lights

Would anyone like to explain the reason why the SP used the famous red gyralights on their locomotives? Since being a dedicated SP fan all my life this has always been a mystery, and I have never seen an explanation in print, despite the many published motive power annuals and even on the Internet. However, I do remember reading in a paragraph of SP special instructions (c. 1978) that the red light was to be displayed when a train "fouled an adjacent track" What would be an example of that kind of train movement?

I have heard some other explanations, the most common was something like it was a warning of loss of air brake pressure, or that the train went into "emergency". Would the train or a set of locomotives be moving while displaying the red light?, because I have seen such scenarios at West Colton or Taylor Yard.

And why exactly was the red gyralight and the Pyle dual Mars light unique to SP anyway, and not to the UP, etc.? I have also heard that it was because SP was held in an ICC Trust, and the Government required these gyralights. Again, I have never seen this explanation in print. I thank any of the authoritative SP historians and other railfans on Train orders for any feedback on this subject.

Follow-up: I realize of course the SD38-2 West Colton hump units were also an exception, being intended as switchers. I understand there is a photo of one of these units in a '70's issue of Extra 2200 South with a portable Pyle-National headlight on the front handrail. Anyone know which issue that was?

srlerxst Wrote:
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> I do remember reading in a
> paragraph of SP special instructions (c. 1978)
> that the red light was to be displayed when a
> train "fouled an adjacent track" What would be an
> example of that kind of train movement?

A derailment, or perhaps a shifted load, might foul an adjacent track.

Exactly right. The red mars control switch was connected to the pneumatic control circuit of
the locomotive. An emergency application of the brakes will illuminate the red mars. In double
track territory, you cannot pass a locomotive displaying the red signal until it can be determined that any incident has not fouled the opposing main track or siding. I always felt that this was an excellent safety system, because it immediately displays a signal to opposing
trains which can be seen at a great distance before the brakeman/conductor could get out the
specified distance walking to protect the train. This is especially important in track that
has high speed trains and has any degree of curvature. Now we rely on radio, phones, etc..,
but it was and is still a good system.

Heres the red mars in action on 6336. This is train 2-622 at Obrien in the early 60's. The engineer flipped it on when he saw me shooting photos.

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srlerxst Wrote:
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> And why exactly was the red gyralight and the Pyle
> dual Mars light unique to SP anyway, and not to
> the UP, etc.?

UP applied a red Mars Signal Light to their Northerns and some early diesels.

> I have also heard that it was
> because SP was held in an ICC Trust, and the
> Government required these gyralights.

It was just management preference. Same as why most SP diesels had a white signal light prior to a management decision to remove them, then another one to put 'em back on, then another to take 'em off again and install a beacon, and on it goes...

Thanks guys for the info, which supports the theories I heard of over the years. Another thing I remember reading was in the September 1979 issue of SP Bulletin, that the Tuscon shop crew made a portable version of the Pyle dual oscillating headlight for units were not equipped with (such as the T&NO GP9's, SD7's etc., I think on the rear) and the article stated that the headlight was "required by Arizona State Law", which leads one to question why then that law did not apply to the Santa Fe. (and yes, I realize Santa Fe's early FP45/SDP40F's etc, were equipped a combination red/clear lens Pyle-gyralight, in the last era of the Super Chief trains)

srlerxst Wrote:
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> I remember reading was in the September 1979 issue
> of SP Bulletin, that the Tuscon shop crew made a
> portable version of the Pyle dual oscillating
> headlight for units were not equipped

2200 South had a picture some time ago of one of the West Colton SD38-2's (one of the few modern SP units not equipped with gyralights) equipped with a portable Mars light attached to the front handrails.

Trivia question: What were the last units built with the SP light package?

Then there is famous story about the lawsuit the SP lost over removing headlights, thus the portable lights..

I think it was the 1984 order of GP40-2's and GE B-23 units, that those units had the a modern version of the Pyle Gyralight I thought they were interesting at first, but not enough to replace the original gyralight entirely. But I prefer them over the ridiculous politically correct FRA required ditch lights! If the new mars light in 1984 was a modern locomotive headlight, how in the world did the ineffective ditch lights make them obsolete in 1989?

I think there was another GE order in 1987 that could not have had the SP standard light package because the SP continued to remove the gyralights after the failed merger. Again, my post is open for
correction.

Yes, Harry is correct in pointing out that typo I made (see reply below), and gave an excellent tutorial on the operation of the modern mars light as well, and I fully agree! I meant to say the B36-7's, but failed to check the model designation for GE unit #7769 I was looking at, an egregious error on my part! I was never really a fan of GE units anyway, (except Kaiser Steel U30C's) and stopped keeping up with all new locomotive model designations ever since then.

srlerxst Wrote:
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> I think it was the 1984 order of GP40-2's and GE
> B-23 units, that those units had the a modern
> version of the Pyle Gyralight I thought they were
> interesting at first, but not enough to make the
> original light obsolete.

Close! It was the final order of Dash7s for the SP:

SP 7754-7767 - B36-7s delivered with the oscitrol light package.
The oscitrol was a "solid-state" (no-moving parts) remake of the gyralite, with fixed beams pre-aimed outward (in a cross-eyes fashion) to each side of the unit. Each of these beams would take turns pulsating in brightness to mimic a true oscillating light package. Well, it didn't convince me nor the railroad in terms of its effectiveness,it seems. However, the Oscitrol was a concerted attempt to lower maintenance costs by eliminating moving parts in a new warning light design.

oscitrol = Less moving parts than a gyralite = lower maintenance costs = higher earnings maybe..

Cheers,
Harry

Those osolating red lights on the SP were also used as rear markers on lite power and helper units until outlawed by the FRA around 1970.

Regards, Jim Evans

There is a story in one of the S. Kip Farrington books on SP adopting the "Electric Flagman", and this was probably back about 40 or 41. It referred not only to the permanently mounted versions, in the GS class engines but some "new" passenger equipment, can't remember whether it was the Daylight or a new Lark set. Plus it included a "portable" version, looked to be larger than a 5 gal paint can.

One of the features was that it automatically came on when an emergency application occurred.

SP was an early believer in seeing and being seen, according to some accounts it was an outgrowth of the tule fogs and coastal fogs, other justa litle more safety in operations. But that carried over from steam era into the diesel era. I'll dig around and see if I can find the article as it had several pictures.

I have a slide of an SD-45 with a rotary beacon way back in 1977. Was that an earl test of sorts?
I'll scan the slide and post it later.
Dave

dmaffei Wrote:
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> I have a slide of an SD-45 with a rotary beacon
> way back in 1977. Was that an earl test of sorts?
> I'll scan the slide and post it later.
> Dave


Or it was loaned to BN for a while. When the GP40X's were loaned to BN they were equipped with Western Cullen beacons.
Joe

1moose Wrote:
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> Trivia question: What were the last units built
> with the SP light package?


I asked this with the idea that it might be a trick question of sorts but as far as I know the last units built with the "SP" light packages were actually the Caltrain F40's built in 1985.

1moose Wrote:
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> 1moose Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Trivia question: What were the last units built
> > with the SP light package?
>
>
> I asked this with the idea that it might be a
> trick question of sorts but as far as I know the
> last units built with the "SP" light packages were
> actually the Caltrain F40's built in 1985.

Hmm.. When were the Caltrain F40s built in 1985? Another candidate for "last SP light package" are EMD GP60 Demos #5-7.

Any of you rosterfarians got build dates on these?

Cheers,
Harry

Yeah, Harry and Moose must be absolutely right again, it certainly is tricky, and requires methodical research. (but not this late at night!)
I completely forgot about the Caltrain units and the GP60's as well. Again, I could have checked the updated Diesel Locomotive Spotter's Guide!

srlerxst Wrote:
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> Yeah, Harry and Moose must be absolutely right
> again, it certainly is tricky, and requires
> methodical research. (but not this late at
> night!)
> I completely forgot about the Caltrain units and
> the GP60's as well. Again, I could have checked
> the updated Diesel Locomotive Spotter's Guide!


I didn't think about the GP60 demo's. A quick Google search and it turns out they were built in '85 also, don't know month on either however.

srlerxst Wrote:
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> I remember reading was in the September 1979 issue
> of SP Bulletin, that the Tuscon shop crew made a
> portable version of the Pyle dual oscillating
> headlight for units were not equipped with (such
> as the T&NO GP9's, SD7's etc., I think on the
> rear) and the article stated that the headlight
> was "required by Arizona State Law", which leads
> one to question why then that law did not apply to
> the Santa Fe.

The so-called "portable" signal lights were simply Pyle-National Gyralights that had a bracket attached to the housing so they could be hung from the from the horizontal end grab irons where the crosswalk chains were.

They were the result of an unfavorable verdict in a lawsuit brought by the plaintiff following a grade crossing collision in Arizona where the leading end of the locomotive was not equipped with a working signal light.

FiveChime Wrote:
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> Those osolating red lights on the SP were also
> used as rear markers on lite power and helper
> units until outlawed by the FRA around 1970.

A red Gyralight hung from the tailgate was often used as a marker on SP passenger trains during the Sixties. UP, on the other hand, used a Mars light (with a little green stationary light mounted above it).