Nostalgia & History > F Units in Power Pools

The pics a few down of WP F units on the BN in Vancouver, WA back in the early 70's got me thinking. How common was it to see F-units in run-through service? I recall seeing pics of BN F's on the WP east of Oroville; I wonder if BN and WP F's ever mingled on the same lash-up on the Inside Gateway freights?

During the 1970's at the pool power mecca of North Platte, Nebraska, I've never seen a photo of a foreign F unit on the UP. And quite a few of the foreign roads that had power regularly appear in North Platte had many F units of their own, like CNW, BN, MILW, Frisco, and MP, but they never came to North Platte.

As far as other railroads besides WP and BN running F's in power pools, I'm drawing a blank. Back in the 70's, I think PC, then CR, F's did wonder into power pools at times, namely with MP and maybe CNW. But it seems that most F's during the early pool power years of the 60's and 70's tended to stay on home rails.

NYC and RI pooled F's in the 70's. I know the RI F's made it to Elkhart Indiana, but I do not know how far the NYC F's went on the RI, maybe Silvas IL.

SP6190 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NYC and RI pooled F's in the 70's. I know the RI
> F's made it to Elkhart Indiana, but I do not know
> how far the NYC F's went on the RI, maybe Silvas
> IL.

There was once an article on this operation in Trains magazine, title had something to do with the Kankakee Belt.

The Boston & Maine and Canadian Pacific pool trains between East Deerfield, MA/White River Jct., VT and Montreal occasionally saw F units. But in general I think the newer units got assigned to pool trains on other railroads because they were considered hot trains that would probably not get junk power.

B&O,CNJ and Reading had a pool between Potomac yard and NYC area. F units were regulars in this service right up until Conrail.

I believe that the ATSF & Frisco had a pool arrangement to Los Angeles. That said, I never saw it, rather, that comment is made based upon what I read in the Frisco power book.

john1082 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe that the ATSF & Frisco had a pool
> arrangement to Los Angeles. That said, I never
> saw it, rather, that comment is made based upon
> what I read in the Frisco power book.

That's another mystery I have yet to decipher. I also read about that, I think in an article on Frisco U25B's or GP35's (or both) in an issue of Diesel Era awhile back. But I've never seen a pic of Frisco power on Santa Fe, or vice versa, let alone if their F's were ever involved in such a run-through arrangement. My gut feeling is that this run-through started sometime back in the mid-60's, say from Los Angeles through the Avard gateway and then to Memphis or Birmingham on the Frisco. But then the power pool was abolished a few years later and didn't last very long, if at all, into the 70's. The advantages of a power pool through the Avard gateway probably wasn't much anyway, especially since they only ran 4 to 6 trains through there a day. And most were mixed freight, with not a great deal of priority.

cdub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The pics a few down of WP F units on the BN in
> Vancouver, WA back in the early 70's got me
> thinking. How common was it to see F-units in
> run-through service? I recall seeing pics of BN
> F's on the WP east of Oroville; I wonder if BN and
> WP F's ever mingled on the same lash-up on the
> Inside Gateway freights?
>
> During the 1970's at the pool power mecca of North
> Platte, Nebraska, I've never seen a photo of a
> foreign F unit on the UP. And quite a few of the
> foreign roads that had power regularly appear in
> North Platte had many F units of their own, like



Northern Pacific and Southern Pacific F units ran between Seattle and Eugene in a power pool. I have seen NP units south of Portland in the mid 60's and a photo of SP units in Seattle. I don't know if they were ever mixed in the same consist.

Anybody know????
> CNW, BN, MILW, Frisco, and MP, but they never came
> to North Platte.
>
> As far as other railroads besides WP and BN
> running F's in power pools, I'm drawing a blank.
> Back in the 70's, I think PC, then CR, F's did
> wonder into power pools at times, namely with MP
> and maybe CNW. But it seems that most F's during
> the early pool power years of the 60's and 70's
> tended to stay on home rails.

IIRC, there was a picture in (I believe) Trains Magazine of Frisco F units at Cajon Pass. I don't remember if it was in the 60s or 70s though.

Jim Pattillo

The terms of power pools sometimes restricted what types of units could be used, sometimes not. For example, UP refused F units from the Iowa Lines and from WP. In general, mixed-ownership F unit lash-ups were rare (excluding leasers).

In the late 50s and early 60s, GN and CB&Q had an interesting pool arrangement. GN F units ran east St. Paul - Chicago on freight trains 82/97 while Q E units ran west St. Paul - Havre on passenger trains 31/32. Photos of mixed GN/CBQ F unit lash-ups in the Chicago area from this era are plentiful.

In modern times (post-1970), F units appearing in Western power pools:

BN-WP Pasco/Vancouver, WA - Stockton/Portola (WP at first, later BN)
BN-SP Seattle - Eugene (BN Fs, possibly SP Fs back in NP days)
UP-SP No
UP-WP No
UP-Iowa Lines No

Maybe roads pooling with PC in IL might have seen PC F Units, e.g., ATSF, Rock, SSW.

I think Milw hosted some EL E units out to Savanna.

Best regards,

Rob L.

The MILW did send F's east on the EL. There is a photo of an EL train in Indiana in Morning Suns EL The West End Book.

Some MP F's did appear on the MILW here in Iowa in the late 1960's albiet briefly though.

MILW86A

Page 176 of Chard Walker's "Cajon, Rail Passage to the Pacific" has a photo of six Frisco F units on symbol freight CTX approaching Summit in Cajon Pass on February 21, 1962.

Page 177 of the book has a photo of three Frisco U25Bs going by the Summit depot on the CXT train on February 20, 1962. The caption stated: "The train originated in Los Angeles, and was handed off to the Quanah, Acme & Pacific at Floydada, Texas."

Back in the early '60s, Denver & Rio Grande Western four-unit F sets were running through to Roseville on the SP. Occasionally, these sets made their way down to Fresno, as evidenced by a photo I've seen taken by then-Fresno resident Bruce Heard.

Correction: that should be the CTX train for both the photo on pg. 176 and the photo on pg. 177 of "Cajon, Rail Passage to the Pacific."

Here is what the text stated on pg. 176: "For a short while in 1962 the Santa Fe and Frisco..pooled motive power on a daily through freight between Los Angeles and Birmingham, Ala., to save a several-hour layover at Floydada, Texas, where the Santa Fe interchanged with the Frisco's subsidiary Quanah, Acme & Pacific Ry. Santa Fe's symbol for this train was the CTX eastward and the QLA westward."