Nostalgia & History > Question for horn experts

I have noticed that many orders of domestic locomotives built in the late 1980's were delivered with K5H horns. Th SP 8000 thread below got me thinking about this. I know NS had the 3550-series B32-8's, 8664-series C39-8E's, 4609-series GP59's, and some SD60's in the 6670's delivered with these horns, and CSX had C40-8's in the 7500's with them. Was this considered the "standard" horn model at the time, before the development of the K5LA? I'm curious why the switch to the K5LA was made. I like the K5H, but it seemed to disappear totally in a short period of time, and many of the originals have been replaced. The only reason I have ever heard was a problem with failures due to exhaust heat, but that could affect any horn model.

The K5H was the "Standard Horn" GE used for a time in the late 1980's into the late 1990's. The K5H was developed in the early 1950's after master horn inventor Bob Swanson invented the M5, commonly known as one of the 1st multiple chime horns for locomotive use which didn't sound like a "Mooing Cow" or a truck.

K5H horns were used on everything delivered from GE during this time on engines for C&NW, CSXT, NS and SP if the buyer did not specify another type of horn used. The K5H was developed well before the K5LA which was originally developed for Amtrak in 1976. The K5LA quickly became quite popular with the railroads after then Chessie System used K5LA's on orders of GP40-2's being built in 1977 and afterward. The K5LA became the "Standard Horn" of the Chessie System Roads in 1977. NS established the K5LA as their standard horn until the new revamping of the K5 horns in recent years.

Like many other types of horns, the K5H has all but disappeared from the rails. The UP replaced all the ex C&NW K5H horns with K3LA's in the late 1990's and nearly none are to be found today on the UP. The CSXT is about the last Class 1 road running K5H horns and they are not that common anymore unfortunately.

wchogger

So on the Amtrak F40PHs, the horn is a K5LA?

Ask m1bprr, he has alot of horns and might know the answer to your question.
butch.g

halfmoonharold Wrote:

> I have noticed that many orders of domestic
> locomotives built in the late 1980's were
> delivered with K5H horns. Th SP 8000 thread below
> got me thinking about this. I know NS had the
> 3550-series B32-8's, 8664-series C39-8E's,
> 4609-series GP59's, and some SD60's in the 6670's
> delivered with these horns, and CSX had C40-8's in
> the 7500's with them.

A group of SP B36-7's also had pairs of K5H's initially,

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,820335

Susie-Q's Dash 8-40B's had single K5H's too, and CSX's Dash 8's had them well into the 7700-series widenoses. It's worth noting, though, that several railroads that traditionally got Leslie horns on new GE power (Conrail, Santa Fe, UP) continued to get S-3L's on their Dash 8's during this period. CNW doesn't quite fit the pattern, as they were generally a Leslie road, but on the other hand, the Dash 8's were their first new GE's since the U30C's.

> The only reason I have ever heard was a
> problem with failures due to exhaust heat, but
> that could affect any horn model.

From what I understand, any K-horn is susceptable to heat damage since their diaphragm is actually two metal disks separated by a silicone ring (hence the K for Bob Swanson's "kettledrum" principle).

Don't know the reason behind the brief burst of K5H applications to GE's in the late 80's, but it was great while it lasted.

WAF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So on the Amtrak F40PHs, the horn is a K5LA?

The first order of Amtrak F40PHs #200-229 had Leslies. The remaining orders all had the K5LA.

RailThunder Wrote:

> The first order of Amtrak F40PHs #200-229 had
> Leslies. The remaining orders all had the K5LA.

The first order of F40's had Nathan P5a's. The SDP40F's were the ones with Leslies.

The "H" in K-5H stood for high mount manifold. K-5 canadian tuned minor chord ---
D#, F#, A#, C, D#.

The K-5LA, "L" for low profile manifold. "A" for American tuned major chord ---
D#, F#, G#, B, D#.

Ed K. HORNS INC. @ cp Laurel Run

---

---

Thanks Ed,
I was getting nervous.

Thanks Ed,
I was getting nervous here - LOL!

Some Amtrak P-42s were delivered with K5Ls
That is - the low bracket with K bells 1 thru 5 (Canadian tuning.
They still run on the point of the coast starlight at least once a week north or southbound.

The newer K5HL is a standard K5H with the number 5 bell replaced with the long (and bassy) number 1L bell.
This single bell change makes for a completely new horn sound trackside.
It seems to be G.E.factory's favorite - delivered on most GEVOs nowadays.

P5r24,
out

Thanks for all the good answers. The K5HL must be the horn on the NS 7500's. There are some swapped-out K5H's running around on various NS units. Kind of odd how a particular horn sound can become attached to a particular era in time. I well-remember the first Chessie units with K5LA's, and also the era of K5H's, and before that the Leslie 5-chime era on N&W.