Nostalgia & History > eBay slide question

I was just checking out eBay and found a slide of a Santa Fe E1 #8 at I'm guessing San Diego. The interesting item is not the E-unit but the old Alco switcher #2301 in the background in a paint scheme I have never seen before. You can't miss it, its the one with orange strips on the ends. Anyone know the history of this unit?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Slides-ATSF-Santa-Fe-8-E-1A-Pass-Scene-RARE_W0QQitemZ370298120358QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item56377ce8a6#ht_1528wt_1167

Wow...tiger stripes! Never seen that on a Santa Fe unit before. Nice catch John.

Santa Fe had lots of units in tiger stripes, but they were white. I have never seen orange, either.

Ed

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Edwardjb Wrote:
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> Santa Fe had lots of units in tiger stripes, but
> they were white. I have never seen orange,
> either.
>
> Ed

I always understood those to be referred to as zebra stripes.

trainjunkie Wrote:
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> I always understood those to be referred to as
> zebra stripes.

I would suggest that if they were silver or white on black they would be Zebra, if orange Tiger! Moreover, if a Triger striped unit ran into a Zebra striped unit, that would be considered a Kill!

I think I'll have another beer now. . .

P.S., I switched with the 2301 in 1964 and at that time it was silver and black and worked out of the Redondo Junction, roundhouse in Los Angeles.

Cheers,
Jack



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/09 17:47 by africansteam.

Zebras, lions, tigers, and bears, "oh my".

Ed

africansteam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> trainjunkie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I always understood those to be referred to as
> > zebra stripes.
>
> I would suggest that if they were silver or white
> on black they would be Zebra, if orange Tiger!
> Moreover, if a Triger striped unit ran into a
> Zebra striped unit, that would be considered a
> Kill!
>
> I think I'll have another beer now. . .
>
> P.S., I switched with the 2301 in 1964 and at that
> time it was silver and black and worked out of the
> Redondo Junction, roundhouse in Los Angeles.
>
> Cheers,
> Jack

I concur, especially the beer part.

Maybe the Espee borrowed the #2301 for a weekend.

In the Cinthia Priest book (now OOP) "The Santa Fe Diesel - Volume I", she mentions that "in December, 1946, the 2301 was rumored to have been adorned with orange tiger stripes" (as opposed to the increasingly more common "zebra stripes"). I have seen the 2301 in this scheme elsewhere in black and white, and one could easily discern that the striping was NOT aluminum NOR white.

The 2301 in this unique paint scheme, is now slightly less relevant in obscurity, compared to the single passenger "F" cab unit, that was briefly equipped with "Flexi-Coil" trucks (I knew a person - now deceased - that had an 8 x 10 B&W pacing shot of THAT rare bird, on the San Francisco Chief near Monolith).

That said, this image of the 2301, may well be the first COLOR image evidence that has surfaced.

Bob

ATSF100WEST......Out

Ca-ching. I think the final bidding price will go higher...

ATSF100WEST Wrote:

> In the Cinthia Priest book (now OOP) "The Santa Fe
> Diesel - Volume I", she mentions that "in
> December, 1946, the 2301 was rumored to have been
> adorned with orange tiger stripes" (as opposed to
> the increasingly more common "zebra stripes"). I
> have seen the 2301 in this scheme elsewhere in
> black and white, and one could easily discern that
> the striping was NOT aluminum NOR white.

There are B&W photos by Stan Kistler of 600hp Alco 2301 and GE 44-tonner 466 in "temporary" orange stripes in McCall's Santa Fe's Early Diesel Daze, and at least one B&W photo of 466 in this scheme in Shine's Santa Fe 1988 Motive Power Pictorial.

In 1946, Santa Fe's standard switcher scheme was still a rather spartan all black scheme with a silver frame stripe and pinstripe, the emblem and AT&SF initials on the hood, and the road number on the cab, a livery introduced around 1939 and still applied to new RS-1's as late as 1947. From the looks of it, the orange stripes on 2301 were just applied over this existing scheme. Silver or white zebra stripes wouldn't be adopted as a switcher scheme until about 1948, so this 1945-46 application of orange stripes was likely an early experiment for better visibility.

Mind you, zebra stripes weren't exactly new to Santa Fe's roster. Their "doodlebugs" had worn black and white zebra stripes on their fronts since at least 1931, and around 1946 they began trading it for an attractive orange/yellow/green "gull wing" scheme. That and the fact that by 1948, "The Octopus" had already adopted orange tiger stripes as its switcher scheme may explain why "The People's Railway" went with silver zebra stripes on their switchers instead.

> That said, this image of the 2301, may well be
> the first COLOR image evidence that has surfaced.

It's the first one I've ever seen, too.

By the way, the 2301 still exists at the Railroad & Heritage Museum in Temple, TX.

http://www.rrhm.org/

Jim Czarnecki's Q-station site has some info and photos of the unit:

http://qstation.org/ATSF2301/

africansteam Wrote:

> I switched with the 2301 in 1964 and at that time it was silver and black
> and worked out of the Redondo Junction, roundhouse in Los Angeles.

The 2301 was indeed retired in black and silver zebra stripes...in September 1963. Might it have been one of the 1000hp 2310-class Alcos you ran instead?

Of course it will Victor, and, provided "CHD" (think Green Bay Packers fan) is in town and the Auction Sniper Server is up, he will prevail, as he always does.

Bob

ATSF100WEST......Out

wabash2800 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ca-ching. I think the final bidding price will go
> higher...

Where does first-out get these images?? He has some of the highest quality offerings on ebay.

Martin


ATSF100WEST Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course it will Victor, and, provided "CHD"
> (think Green Bay Packers fan) is in town and the
> Auction Sniper Server is up, he will prevail, as
> he always does.
>
> Bob
>
> ATSF100WEST......Out
>
> wabash2800 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ca-ching. I think the final bidding price will
> go
> > higher...

Maybe they did tiger stripes for the San Diego Zoo.

The San Diego Zoo used to paint tails on the tailgate of thier trucks. Steve

Martin,

Todd Novak is his name - they live in Ohio. He and his father scour the countryside for estate sales and various other sources.

Even their "Dupes" are top drawer, as you can see here:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2067141

Bob

ATSF100WEST......Out

myoungwisc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where does first-out get these images?? He has
> some of the highest quality offerings on ebay.
>
> Martin
>

From one the Santa Fe forums:
The non-standard orange zebra (“tiger”?) stripes were applied when these engines were assigned as passenger station switchers at San Diego. Departing “San Diegan” streamliners backed out of the station and turned on the wye at the Marine Corps base to head north to LA. To protect the rear of the train through the many grade crossings between the station and the wye, the station switcher coupled onto the obs car and led the train backwards onto the tail track of the wye, then uncoupled. The orange stripes were intended to increase the visibility of the engines in what was obviously considered a “high-risk” duty. This story has been reported several times before, but that was the first color photo I’ve seen of an orange-striped Santa Fe switcher.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine

WOW!!! That is a RARE image, I have NEVER seen orange stripes on ATSF.
Only silver.
VERY nice.
Tom

Evan_Werkema Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> africansteam Wrote:
>
> > I switched with the 2301 in 1964 and at that
> time it was silver and black
> > and worked out of the Redondo Junction,
> roundhouse in Los Angeles.
>
> The 2301 was indeed retired in black and silver
> zebra stripes...in September 1963. Might it have
> been one of the 1000hp 2310-class Alcos you ran
> instead?

Good point, Evan. I definitely switched with the 2310 (only as a switchman, by the way - although some engineers would let us run under a watchful eye on occasion). Do you know if the 2301 was off the property by then or stored at Redondo Junction?

Cheers,
Jack

africansteam Wrote:

> Do you know if the 2301 was off
> the property by then or stored at Redondo
> Junction?

I don't know. The 2301 was sold to Palo Duro Grain in Tulia, TX and later moved to Producers Grain in Lubbock. Sister 2302 was formally retired a year later (1964) and sold to American Grain in Plainview, TX, but a photo in Worley's Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail shows 2302 already in Plainview and leased to the grain company by 1961. It's within the realm of possibility that 2301 was also leased before it was sold, and was already laboring in Texas by the time it was formally retired.