Nostalgia & History > 4 Q's leading on UP, 5 units, 5 models Cheyenne 1969

CB&Q SD24 leads 3 other Q units and a UP GP9B, wb on the UP out of the Cheyenne yard. I took this from the C&S bridge over the UP on Feb. 12, 1969. Check out those stock cars at the head end ...(35mm negative)

---

---

Pretty neat Cheyenne Tower A-area photo! === === = === JLH

Very nice Sir! Love that GP9B! Thanks for sharing!

Really nice look back. High hood as a leader, no white flags but the white indicator lights are illuminated, really great. Thanks for showing this one.
Brian Stevens

Thanks Valmont! I always look forward to your posts on the Nostalgia Board.

Looks to be SD24-U25B-GP35-GP20-GP9B. I don't recall ever seeing such a diverse set of Q motors in a single lashup.

Tim Costello

tgcostello Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks Valmont! I always look forward to your
> posts on the Nostalgia Board.
>
> Looks to be SD24-U25B-GP35-GP20-GP9B. I don't
> recall ever seeing such a diverse set of Q motors
> in a single lashup.
>
> Tim Costello


Your comment reminded me of a shot I'd previously posted, another wild Q lashup, also in 1969 ... I took this in Denver on April 2, 1969

---

Great stuff. CB&Q around the Front Range has been pretty rare on this board, feel free to continue posting.

Pics 1 & 2: "Taking Stock" of the situation I see...

octrax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pics 1 & 2: "Taking Stock" of the situation I
> see...

About 20 loads of stock on the head end plus a fair bit of perishable. Obviously a train from the PNW in the fall.

Best regards,

Rob L.

I'm a little confused, it's heading West. Maybe it's heading to Denver and an interchange onto the C&S... CB&Q, whatever. That particular Mainline track would/could go to Speer and points south... doesn't it?

I don't think they interchanged directly in town at that point in time.

> -----
> > Pics 1 & 2: "Taking Stock" of the situation I
> > see...
>
> About 20 loads of stock on the head end plus a
> fair bit of perishable. Obviously a train from the
> PNW in the fall.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob L.

My bad.

WESTBOUND train to the PNW with empty stock cars and empty reefers on the point.

Best regards,

Rob L.

rob_l Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> octrax Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Pics 1 & 2: "Taking Stock" of the situation I
> > see...
>
> About 20 loads of stock on the head end plus a
> fair bit of perishable. Obviously a train from the
> PNW in the fall.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob L.

On that date, I had about three days seniority.

> I'm a little confused, it's heading West. Maybe
> it's heading to Denver and an interchange onto the
> C&S... CB&Q, whatever.

Hello,

First off, we can't be sure about this looking only at photos. But for what it's worth my guess is that the train is the CB&QF's connection (CB&Q Forwarder), a runthrough from the Q with West Coast traffic via Grand Island, Nebraska. In the 1960s, it was common for the Q power to run west out into Wyoming, often turning back east at Green River. I suppose the stock cars contain hogs. Those were probably gathered up in Nebraska and added to the headend of the train somewhere, possibly at North Platte. The train that normally handled the hogs in that era was the CLS and it was also scheduled thru Chian around mid-day, so the traffic may have been combined on that particular day. If the stock cars were handling hogs, the majority of them ended up in LA.


> That particular Mainline track would/could go to Speer and points south... doesn't it?

He's leaving Chian on main 3, which would have sent him toward Speer. From there, it would have been possible to go either to Denver, up main 3 via Harriman to Laramie, or via the Borie Cut-Off via Sherman to Laramie. Since I believe that's a CB&QF/CLS-type train, my bet is that he's headed up main 3 via Harriman toward Green River.


> I don't think they interchanged directly in town at that point in time.

The UP did get some livestock and other traffic from the CB&Q at Sidney & Denver and from the C&S at Chian at times in the 1960s & before, but the stock shipments from the Q or C&S that I've seen on UP conductor's lists are most often moving in Q or C&S cars. The fact that they're UP cars probably means that the shipments originated on the UP east of Chian.

Take care,

Mark

The run-through power on a specific train would explain a lot of what we see, good info, time of day fits as well.

Good G-2 on the origin of the cars, makes sense for the home road to get the business. Simpler times.

I'll chime in here.

mamfahr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I'm a little confused, it's heading West. Maybe
> > it's heading to Denver and an interchange onto
> the
> > C&S... CB&Q, whatever.

It's not a Denver train. It could be the CB&Q Grand Island run-through as Mark asserts, but I think much more likely this is a post-1968 train off the WB North Platte hump and the CB&Q owes UP horsepower-hours. The consist looks like symbol NWM to me.

>
> Hello,
>
> First off, we can't be sure about this looking
> only at photos. But for what it's worth my guess
> is that the train is the CB&QF's connection (CB&Q
> Forwarder), a runthrough from the Q with West
> Coast traffic via Grand Island, Nebraska. In the
> 1960s, it was common for the Q power to run west
> out into Wyoming, often turning back east at Green
> River.

This practice was done when the new EB hump at North Platte opened. From that time forward, all WB manifest was humped at North Platte and Green River was done blocking WB transcon manifest traffic.

> I suppose the stock cars contain hogs.
> Those were probably gathered up in Nebraska and
> added to the headend of the train somewhere,
> possibly at North Platte. The train that normally
> handled the hogs in that era was the CLS and it
> was also scheduled thru Chian around mid-day, so
> the traffic may have been combined on that
> particular day. If the stock cars were handling
> hogs, the majority of them ended up in LA.

Could be the CLS traffic. But weren't all the UP hog cars painted yellow? Some of those are red cars. If not the CLS hogs, those could be returning empty cattle cars. One of the largest EB destinations for cattle was Montgomery, IL on the CB&Q. Those look like empty cattle cars picked up at Galesburg. After humping at North Platte, the NWM would be the right train to forward the cars back to Idaho. The NWM was a morning train at Cheyenne.

The CB&Q in the late 60s also had a strong share of the PFE traffic, accounting for the empty reefers right behind the stock cars.

>
>
> > That particular Mainline track would/could go to
> Speer and points south... doesn't it?
>
> He's leaving Chian on main 3, which would have
> sent him toward Speer. From there, it would have
> been possible to go either to Denver, up main 3
> via Harriman to Laramie, or via the Borie Cut-Off
> via Sherman to Laramie. Since I believe that's a
> CB&QF/CLS-type train, my bet is that he's headed
> up main 3 via Harriman toward Green River.

I agree it is not a Denver train.

>
>
> > I don't think they interchanged directly in town
> at that point in time.
>
> The UP did get some livestock and other traffic
> from the CB&Q at Sidney & Denver and from the C&S
> at Chian at times in the 1960s & before, but the
> stock shipments from the Q or C&S that I've seen
> on UP conductor's lists are most often moving in Q
> or C&S cars. The fact that they're UP cars
> probably means that the shipments originated on
> the UP east of Chian.
>

Or were cattle empties originating on the CB&Q.

Best regards,

Rob L.

GREAT PHOTOS! I love seeing older Cheyenne photos. I'd like to shoot from that bridge embankment sometime but doubt one could get away with that for very long this day and time.

Stock equipment seems like it would have been a good candidate for pooling. Did the railroads ever attempt that?

Great info. Any idea how far west the CB&Q power would go?

> > ... my guess is that the train is the CB&QF's connection (CB&Q Forwarder), a runthrough from the Q with West Coast traffic via Grand Island, Nebraska.

> This practice was done when the new EB hump at North Platte opened. From that time forward, all
WB manifest was humped at North Platte and Green River was done blocking WB transcon manifest traffic.

Hello Rob,

Thanks for the comments. I looked this up and their annual report states that the new hump opened in Oct 25, 1968. I had the impression that they "phased in" their operational changes (as you describe above, humping Forwarder trains vs. not) over many months after that time. The Chian photo is in very early '69, so I thought they may not have been humping that particular train yet. From what I've seen, it did normally come off of the Q already blocked for UP's western destinations... Anyhow, what you propose certainly seems possible to me, it all depends upon when they revised the op. practices thru NP.


> > I suppose the stock cars contain hogs.

> Could be the CLS traffic ... If not the CLS hogs, those could be returning empty cattle cars...

I agree that's a likely possibility also. But I vaguely recall reading (in an old Mixed Train issue) that empty stock cars from the Q normally returned via Co. Bluffs, rather than on the hot Forwarder runthroughs via GI, so they could be inspected, prepped, etc. then distributed for loading from there. I'm not sure what was normally done, and there could have been an exception to that on any given day. Something that made me think they were loaded (hogs) is that some are triple-deck cars (normally used for hogs) and I hadn't heard of any of those being routed to the PNW. I can't see if the others are single or double deckers; I don't know enough about the specific stock car types to identify them, but if single, then the Idaho cattle loading suggestion works for me.



> The NWM was a morning train at Cheyenne.

Another reason I thought the stock cars may have hog traffic is that the cars were grouped near the headend of the train. That was the normal place to handle livestock traffic. It's certainly possible to have handled empty cars on the headend also, as a convenience when they made the pickup en-route, who knows...

I don't know if this would have impacted things or not, but the original roundhouse / engine facility on the north side of the North Platte yard was still being used at that time. It was replaced in 1971 by the new shop / E/F on the south side. From what I've seen, they tended to service / hold / "turn back" less power before 1971 vs. after, partly because they didn't have the facilities to deal with lots of power at the original "north side" facility. I've noticed a tendency to send "eastern" runthrough power through NP on WB hotshots more often prior to 1971 (regardless of the HPH/HPM account status), possibly for that reason. The many photos that have been shared of the Frisco, N&W, RI, IC & Q locomotives out around Chain (& beyond) in 1969 seem to support that also.

Anyhow, interesting discussion.

Take care,

Mark