Nostalgia & History > When SP Wanted to Replace Commute Trains with Vans!

One of the loonier ideas ever to come out of SP Headquarters at 65 Market Street (now 1 Market) was a proposal in the mid 1970's to replace the San Francisco Peninsula commute trains with commuter vans (!). I suspect this idea must have come right from the top of the SP totem pole or it would have been nixed before it reached the top. SP claimed it was carrying 8000 passengers a day so the premise was to replace the trains with 1000 SP supplied vans, each supposedly to carry 8 car pool passengers. SP apparently reasoned that although not every commute rider would go for this hare brained scheme maybe enough of them to substantially reduce ridership would and then they would apply once again to the PUC for permission to discontinue the by then extremely low ridership trains. They had previously been turned down several times by the PUC.

To not too many people's surprise the idea went over like a lead balloon with passengers and commute service employees alike (myself, recently hired in Coast subdivision engine service, included in the latter category) and quickly disappeared from sight. Back to the drawing board for those brilliant minds on Market Street! About a decade later SP finally got that permission to discontinue the commute trains from the PUC but the State of California stepped in and saved the day, thus the beginning of modern day Caltrain.

Images below are the rather elaborate promotional packet the SP handed out to passengers at the 4th and Townsend depot and the flyer that explained the idea. Also included was a question and answer pamphlet, a US Department of Transportation booklet on van pools and a "Yes I'm interested" card which was picked up on trains. Wonder how many of those things they got back? I suspect more than a few of them had some rude comments about what SP could do with that proposal!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/13 12:30 by johnw.

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What a crazy idea! That shows how desperate SP was to get out of the passenger business.

Martin

OK, for comparison purposes, how many daily riders does CalTrain have now?

march_hare Wrote:
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> OK, for comparison purposes, how many daily riders
> does CalTrain have now?

As of February 2013, the daily weekday average was just slightly more than 47,000 riders! That is almost 6 times what Southern Pacific is claiming back then. However, I would bet that Southern Pacific had 8000 people ride the train round trip each day while I am certain Caltrains counts a round trip as two riders. So that would make Caltrain still three times busier.

march_hare Wrote:
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> OK, for comparison purposes, how many daily riders
> does CalTrain have now?

As per Caltrain "February 2013 Key Finding Annual Passenger Counts"

The average weekday ridership count (AWR) count per day increased 11.1 percent compared
to the previous annual count, with a total of 47,060 boardings. Since 1997, Caltrain AWR has
increased by more than 90 percent, as shown in Figure 1. Between 2001 and 2004, ridership
was in a steady decline until the implementation of Baby Bullet service in 2004 and the reinvention
of the service in 2005. With the exception of a decrease seen in 2010, ridership has
been steadily increasing since the summer of 2004. Ridership has grown nearly 97 percent
since the implementation of Baby Bullet service.

The rest of the report can be found at: http://www.caltrain.com/Assets/Stats+and+Reports/Ridership/2013+Annual+Ridership+Counts.pdf

Everywhere West, a underground version of CTC Board in the 70s, added a few extra features to the drawing like a snowplow, steam lines, block SP on the front of the van, 5 chime air horns, number boars.

The forces of darkness, with their Triumph of the Bus stories, are still trying this!

One of the occupants obviously told a very funny joke right before that sliding door was opened……

Just look how happy all those folks look!

SantaFeSammy Wrote:
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> One of the occupants obviously told a very funny
> joke right before that sliding door was
> opened……
>
> Just look how happy all those folks look!

Like"I'll never ride this again"

As I was involved in Operation Vanpool, I remember it well. Several hundred SP officers and exempts (from a union contract) were summoned to a meeting in a hotel ballroom within walking distance of SP's headquarters at One Market Plaza a couple of weeks before the event began. Attendees came from all over the Bay Area including a fair sized contingent from my location at Oakland. None of us had a clue about what was about to be thrust upon us as we heard the 2 hour presentation.

I was seated near the rear of this large room when the presenter announced that there would be second meeting later in the week for certain officers who were to take the lead in Operation Vanpool. He then began naming some twenty individuals and instructed them to stand up so all could identify them. To my chagrin, my name was called but I hesitated to stand since I could not believe they would pick a guy with zero connections to the Executive Department, which was leading this previously unheard of procedure. I looked around to see if someone else shared my name and would stand, but when no one did, I quickly arose.

That meeting took place in the General Office on the 8th floor in the plush, paneled Executive Boardroom. I was a little uneasy but extremely attentive. The leader, as I can recall, was the Assistant to the President. He had packages for each of us and assigned us to one of two groups. My group was to meet at 4 AM at a hotel restaurant in San Jose each morning of the event, have breakfast and then proceed to the San Jose depot where we would check attendance of presenters and hand out packets of information that they in turn would give to commuters on board the commute trains. The second group did the same thing at the San Francisco depot.

I was obvious that our leader in that second meeting had a thorough understanding of exactly how Operation Vanpool was to be presented to train riders, the public and the media. He made it crystal clear to each of us what was expected of everyone and how we were to be 100% behind this program. Then to my surprise he finally added that although he did not think it would work and that we might not think so either, that did not matter. "He (B. F. Biagini, Chairman of the Board) thinks it will work and we are going to do everything we can to make it happen.” After leaving that room I never again heard anything positive about this failed program.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/13 14:58 by Westbound.

Looks to me like someone sparked up a doobie in the Scooby wagon...

John Ford

SantaFeSammy Wrote:
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> One of the occupants obviously told a very funny
> joke right before that sliding door was
> opened……!

The joke was:

Question: "How do you pronounce 'B-I-A-G-G-I-N-I'?"

Answer: "BIG NINNY"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/13 22:51 by CA_Sou_MA_Agent.

Great first hand report Westbound! You sort of confirmed what I speculated about regarding somebody way up the SP totem pole being behind it, at least giving it his personal seal of approval. "Big Ben" Biagini did come immediately to mind back then just as he does now!

Westbound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As I was involved in Operation Vanpool, I remember
> it well. Several hundred SP officers and exempts
> (from a union contract) were summoned to a meeting
> in a hotel ballroom within walking distance of
> SP's headquarters at One Market Plaza a couple of
> weeks before the event began. Attendees came from
> all over the Bay Area including a fair sized
> contingent from my location at Oakland. None of us
> had a clue about what was about to be thrust upon
> us as we heard the 2 hour presentation.
>
> I was seated near the rear of this large room when
> the presenter announced that there would be second
> meeting later in the week for certain officers who
> were to take the lead in Operation Vanpool. He
> then began naming some twenty individuals and
> instructed them to stand up so all could identify
> them. To my chagrin, my name was called but I
> hesitated to stand since I could not believe they
> would pick a guy with zero connections to the
> Executive Department, which was leading this
> previously unheard of procedure. I looked around
> to see if someone else shared my name and would
> stand, but when no one did, I quickly arose.
>
> That meeting took place in the General Office on
> the 8th floor in the plush, paneled Executive
> Boardroom. I was a little uneasy but extremely
> attentive. The leader, as I can recall, was the
> Assistant to the President. He had packages for
> each of us and assigned us to one of two groups.
> My group was to meet at 4 AM at a hotel restaurant
> in San Jose each morning of the event, have
> breakfast and then proceed to the San Jose depot
> where we would check attendance of presenters and
> hand out packets of information that they in turn
> would give to commuters on board the commute
> trains. The second group did the same thing at the
> San Francisco depot.
>
> I was obvious that our leader in that second
> meeting had a thorough understanding of exactly
> how Operation Vanpool was to be presented to train
> riders, the public and the media. He made it
> crystal clear to each of us what was expected of
> everyone and how we were to be 100% behind this
> program. Then to my surprise he finally added that
> although he did not think it would work and that
> we might not think so either, that did not matter.
> "He (B. F. Biagini, Chairman of the Board) thinks
> it will work and we are going to do everything we
> can to make it happen.” After leaving that room
> I never again heard anything positive about this
> failed program.

Lone Star Wrote:
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> Looks to me like someone sparked up a doobie in
> the Scooby wagon...
>
> John Ford

LOL!! Driver probably had the Doobie Brothers "Long Train Runnin" on the radio too.

Does kinda look like Fred driving the Scooby Wagon, just has his hair parted a little differently...


Allen



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/13 18:00 by bradleymckay.

What they never said, was how many people were riding on a pass who worked at 65 Market or the Bryant and other Annexes.

Nudge

I remember this story from the 70s, only the version I heard had the commuters riding Volkswagen vans. There are still a few VW vans from that era running around in California, and I always expect them to be adorned with peace signs and Grateful Dead logos. Like wow, man! Keep on truckin'!

Lone Star Wrote:
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> Looks to me like someone sparked up a doobie in
> the Scooby wagon...
>
> John Ford

John

Thanks for making me laugh out loud tonight!

Craig

doesyourdogbite Wrote:
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> And, anyone wearing plaid, bell
> bottomed, slacks would probably smile all day
> anyway...
=========================================
I resemble that remark, and I'm not smiling...and it's only a VW bug.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/13 20:32 by terrybaker.

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The flip side is in Florida. The per-seat cost for a DMU proposal was equivalent to purchasing an equal number of seats using top-end Mercedes-Benz automobiles.

The SP didn't much care what it cost, they just wanted out. Gold plated Caddys or Pink Mustangs, who cares as long as those nasty passengers quit bothering us. Just make 'em go away so we can run the railroad in to the ground and revert to being the land company we want to be.