Nostalgia & History > Question about Tower Board Signal Indicator Lights

It seems my recollection from visiting towers as a very young teenager but not paying enough attention to detail is that signal indicator lights on tower model boards lit green. I would assume that the indicator lamp lit green regardless of indication other than stop (not lit). My question is if the most permissive indication a corresponding signal could give is "proceed at slow speed", would that indicator light just be lit with a yellow lamp or would it still be green regardless? (I know they didn't change color.)

Also my recollection of train indicators lamps on the board is that they were usually red but I recall clear ones too and a mixture of both (replacements?)

Yes, I am still working on my tower model board, but have just a few more things to work out.

Victor A. Baird
www.erstwhilepublications.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/14 12:58 by wabash2800.

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Victor, in my memory different towers or at least different railroads used different colors for different indications. Sorry, I know that does not help.

Marty

wabash2800 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems my recollection from visiting towers as a
> very young teenager but not paying enough
> attention to detail is that signal indicator
> lights on tower model boards lit green. I would
> assume that the indicator lamp lit green
> regardless of indication other than stop (not
> lit). My question is if the most permissive
> indication a corresponding signal could give is
> "proceed at slow speed", would that indicator
> light just be lit with a yellow lamp or would it
> still be green regardless? (I know they didn't
> change color.)
>
> Also my recollection of train indicators lamps on
> the board is that they were usually red but I
> recall clear ones too and a mixture of both
> (replacements?)
>
> Yes, I am still working on my tower model board,
> but have just a few more things to work out.

Basically and in general, the indicator only shows stop (dark) or not stop (lit). All of the signal lights are the same regardless of indication displayed.

TAW

Victor, I have been out of the towers for 38 years now but what I recall is that on most tower track charts, the indicator lamps by the signals were just on/off lights telling us if the signal was 'pulled' and sent to the field. The green color, if used, was just the screw in or snap on cover over the bulb. I do not remember ever seeing anything on a chart that told us what indication the corresponding signal actually displayed, other that it was something positive. That is true even for the modern Digicon, US&S, and other brand of dispatching electronics now in use.

When a train passed the cleared signal, the corresponding 'bulb' on the chart would just turn off. That told us we could throw the lever back into the machine without dropping the signal in front of the train. Several plants on the NYC had pistol grips rather than the strong arm levers as in your photo; HF (South Bend), NE (Pine Junction), MS (Whiting), JN (east end of Englewood Yard), and Clark Street (just out of LaSalle Street Station, Chicago) had them. These machines had little translucent squares above each grip with the signal or switch number thereon, and would illuminate when 'pulled' or cleared. When the signal was knocked down in the field, the signal's light above the grip would go out.

Those were sweet jobs!

Rich

Thank you guys for confirming what I thought. I never could find lamp covers or large LEDs that looked like the lamp covers from back then but found something that is almost a dead ringer:
I got things worked out for my CAD drawing so that I could draw my FWU interlocking in the style you see in the photo and print it full size so a sign maker can convert the black lines, lettering and other details into yellow and give the whole board a green background. (My tower model board is full size--about 2x5 feet and hangs on the wall behind the layout in the location of my interlocking.)

I already scratch-built my 40 lever, brick interlocking tower (like the one at Jacksonville, Illinois) and have all the levers working for the switches. Next on the list is to add more levers and paint them for signals and derails (non working) and add the train order signal and levers. (My sample prototype did not use route levers.) I have all the aspects and indications worked out for the model board but would like to draw them up like the AAR symbols in the attached chart. I'm still scratching my head on that one...

Of course, down the road are the electronics to make the interlocking work like the real thing. One step at time...I could have built the sliding locks for the interlocking but am going to use some computer software in the background instead. I'll have to add detection circuits, etc. too. I have worked on this on and off for a few years now and also wrote a book and am working on another one so hopefully I'll have something to show for the NMRA get together here next year.


Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/15 14:37 by wabash2800.

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I don't know if this helps.

Marty Bernard

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Marty:

Thanks, I have a photo of the Wolcottville board by itself with the details. What I meant is that I'm translating the symbols for my interlocking on my model railroad. It's not Wolcottville but I am using the same style used on the Wolcottville board. But I could use the updated AAR symbols shown here that make more sense, at least to me. I believe someone from Trainorders shared these two charts.

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wabash2800 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I
> will cut the ends off of 13mm test tubes (13 mm is
> pretty close to 1/2 in.; test tubes are available
> in glass and plastic) and mount them in 13mm
> grommets.) I have some translucent paint in red
> and green to paint the test tube ends and will use
> LEDs for a light source. I don't think anyone will
> ever know the difference.

http://www.dialight.com/Assets/Brochures_And_Catalogs/Indication/pmi_cat/07D.pdf

This would have been a pretty typical pilot lamp or signal lamp of the 1950s through the 1970s. In the 1930-1950 era the difference would probably have been that the lamp would not be replaceable from the front of the panel (although the lens was), but had to be replaced from behind. There was also an open-frame version of this that was front-replaceable and was available from about 1915 or so onward.

The telephone company had a similar but slightly smaller indicator that had lamps with a long double-sided slide-in base that they used on their equipment. A version of that made it into 1960s military equipment. They were very reliable and obscenely expensive. I have doubts any railroad would have used them.

The lamp shown in the link would have used either a screw base or bayonet base lamp, either 6.3V or 12.6V for most electronics, but probably some really oddball voltage for railroad signal equipment.

Note that you can still order the lens caps for the lamp body shown. They are actually closer to 3/4" diameter than 1/2", since a typical miniature lamp was a T3-1/4, which is 3 1/4 eights of an inch (0.406") in diameter, and the hole needed to be large enough a) to allow lamp replacement, and b) let a reasonable amount of light out.

I trying to think back many years but in most of the towers I worked the light would go from off to green when you lined the signal.

Would you by chance happen to have any pics in or around JN?

Posted from iPhone

Thanks IWilton. I have seen those like in the link and actually have some but they don't match up with the ones I need. The type I remember were not as tall.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/14 20:03 by wabash2800.

Seventyfive Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Victor, I have been out of the towers for 38 years
> now but what I recall is that on most tower track
> charts, the indicator lamps by the signals were
> just on/off lights telling us if the signal was
> 'pulled' and sent to the field. The green color,
> if used, was just the screw in or snap on cover
> over the bulb. I do not remember ever seeing
> anything on a chart that told us what indication
> the corresponding signal actually displayed, other
> that it was something positive. That is true even
> for the modern Digicon, US&S, and other brand of
> dispatching electronics now in use.
>
> When a train passed the cleared signal, the
> corresponding 'bulb' on the chart would just turn
> off. That told us we could throw the lever back
> into the machine without dropping the signal in
> front of the train. Several plants on the NYC had
> pistol grips rather than the strong arm levers as
> in your photo; HF (South Bend), NE (Pine
> Junction), MS (Whiting), JN (east end of
> Englewood Yard), and Clark Street (just out of
> LaSalle Street Station, Chicago) had them. These
> machines had little translucent squares above each
> grip with the signal or switch number thereon, and
> would illuminate when 'pulled' or cleared. When
> the signal was knocked down in the field, the
> signal's light above the grip would go out.
>
> Those were sweet jobs!
>
> Rich

Would u happen to have an pictures in or around those towers especially JN?

Posted from iPhone