Nostalgia & History > Chicago Union Station Files - Advance HI Sections

Advice from Mr. C.C. Dilley of the Milwaukee Road concerning operation
of Advance Sections of the Morning and Afternoon Hiawathas on the Sunday
after Thanksgiving.

Note the utilization of otherwise dormant Suburban equipment, and the
instructions to ticket agents to publicize the trains.

Advance 5 is returning as Advance 2. No word on the disposition of
Advance 3's equipment but probably a deadhead move to the Fox Lake
coach yard.

"Operation of these Advance Sections.....has been set up for the comfort
and convenience of coach passengers desiring service......" How very nice.
Less than three years before Amtrak and the MILW is still "going the extra mile".
Thank you Milwaukee Road for all the years of serving the public.
Too bad we can't have such service this year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/14 10:43 by Englewood.

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Operationally, it makes sense, but as a passenger, I always felt cheated not being in a train with a real diner or lounge. Great piece.

Will the advanced section be flying white flags ?

Rich

What exactly were the "service wells"? Were some seats removed to create the snack vending space?

MThopper Wrote:
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> What exactly were the "service wells"? Were some
> seats removed to create the snack vending space?


I am thinking they were stairwells at the center doors.
That is how the Metra bilevels were configured when they
had "bar cars". I will try to find out for certain.

Seventyfive Wrote:
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> Will the advanced section be flying white flags ?
>
> Rich

I will defer the answer to those on the website who are infinitely more
knowledgeable concerning operating rules and train dispatching than I am.

rswebber Wrote:
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> Operationally, it makes sense, but as a passenger,
> I always felt cheated not being in a train with a
> real diner or lounge. Great piece.


Yes not the usual standard of service, but compare what was provided
to the philosophy of current industry "leaders" who "don't build
churches for Easter Sunday".

The regular section would have had the usual diner, lounge, etc.
How many of the college kids on the Advance would have availed
themselves of the costly dining facilities? They were probably well
equipped by Mom with turkey sandwiches for the journey.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/14 14:30 by Englewood.

What was coach 4570? Don't recognize that number.

BSB

The practice of using commuter rail equipment to increase capacity to accommodate Thanksgiving holiday travelers continued into the Amtrak era. During the mid-1980s, I once saw a train comprised of Metro North FL9s and passenger cars stock arriving from New York City at the Albany/Rensselear, NY station during a Sunday after Thanksgiving.

BigSkyBlue Wrote:
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> What was coach 4570? Don't recognize that
> number.
>
> BSB

It was a 1942-built coach converted to a snack coach for use with the commuter bi-levels.

Seventyfive Wrote:
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> Will the advanced section be flying white flags ?
>
> Rich

Because the railroad was CTC, that would remove most requirements for the train to carry classification signals, but I think that the first two sections would carry green flags, and the third train would carry no signals.

I don't think the practice of using commuter equipment around Thanksgiving ever stopped on the northeast corridor. In fact Amtrak's announcement regarding this year's schedule from a few days ago was posted on the Passenger board a few days ago.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,3578983

RuleG Wrote:
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> The practice of using commuter rail equipment to
> increase capacity to accommodate Thanksgiving
> holiday travelers continued into the Amtrak era.
> During the mid-1980s, I once saw a train comprised
> of Metro North FL9s and passenger cars stock
> arriving from New York City at the
> Albany/Rensselear, NY station during a Sunday
> after Thanksgiving.

I could just see Amtrak, we couldn't possibly get a train to New Lisbon and turn it around that fast for the return trip. Ha! It would be neat to trace all those CC initials. GWH- Gerald W Hilton?

mp51w Wrote:
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> I could just see Amtrak, we couldn't possibly get
> a train to New Lisbon and turn it around that fast
> for the return trip. Ha! It would be neat to
> trace all those CC initials. GWH- Gerald W
> Hilton?

FHR F.H. Ryan Supt Milwaukee
FAB F.A. Barton
GWH Glenn Hyatt Psgr Dept.
QWT G.W. Torpin Asst. Genl. Mgr. (?)
WRJ Bill Jones Dining Car Dept
RJP Ray Peters City Ticket Agent
LVA L.V Anderson V.P (?)
RCT Richard Tobin CTD Milw (?)

penncentral74 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seventyfive Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Will the advanced section be flying white flags
> ?
> >
> > Rich
>
> Because the railroad was CTC, that would remove
> most requirements for the train to carry
> classification signals, but I think that the first
> two sections would carry green flags, and the
> third train would carry no signals.

The first one wouldn't if it was running ahead of the time of the schedule (as in ...advance).

Back then, trains still ran by timetable rules and displayed signals as appropriate, even in CTC (in which some of the rules of timetable operation remained in effect). In those times, spatch was familiar with all of the tools, knew how to use them, and had the liberty (and authority and responsibility) to run trains as he saw fit. That might include running the advance train extra or hanging rags (displaying green signals) on some previous train.
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,1350040,1351246#msg-1351246 Date: 02/25/07 14:30 Re: Who stops when with multiple sections?

TAW

MThopper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What exactly were the "service wells"? Were some
> seats removed to create the snack vending space?


I have learned that one method used was to store the supplies in the center door stairwells
and set up a service area inside the car. For the service area, a pair of seats closest to the vestibule
were turned to make up a "four seater" on one or both sides of the aisle. A temporary table was
installed to act as a counter. The coffee pots, sandwiches, etc., were then set up on the counter.

Thank you for digging that up.

Smart not to offer beer for sale to the passengers on those advance sections.

Advance sections  or  special moves, could also operate as a section of a previous schedued train.

Had lots of examples of this in Southern California in the 50's and 60's,

 

Englewood Wrote:
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> mp51w Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I could just see Amtrak, we couldn't possibly
> get
> > a train to New Lisbon and turn it around that
> fast
> > for the return trip. Ha! It would be neat to
> > trace all those CC initials. GWH- Gerald W
> > Hilton?
>

> FHR F.H. Ryan Supt Milwaukee
> FAB F.A. Barton
> GWH Glenn Hyatt Psgr Dept.
> QWT G.W. Torpin Asst. Genl. Mgr. (?)
> WRJ Bill Jones Dining Car Dept
> RJP Ray Peters City Ticket Agent
> LVA L.V Anderson V.P (?)
> RCT Richard Tobin CTD Milw (?)

According to a January 1970 Terre Haute Division timetable (two years after this letter) two of your guesses were pretty close:
LVA was L.V.Anderson, Assistant Vice President Operations and General Manager
QWT was Q.W. Torpin, General Superintenent of Transportation