Nostalgia & History > Diaphrams and skirts

Relax, the censor need not warm up his pen on this one, saucy title aside.  There was a great recent thread about the engine change in Bakersfield for the Daylights, in 1950.  In those views, one can see that some of the passenger cars still had their skirts in place, while other cars have already had theirs removed.  I was around in those years, and remember well my disappointment at this sad development.  Then I got to thinking about another amenity that disappeared in the same era.....the wide diaphram.  These two items, to me, really dressed up the train.  Now, I have a few questions which I hope can be answered.  Were these two appliances removed at the same time...presumably in a shopping?  What year did passenger cars start being delivered without skirts (or diaphrams)?  Recall being what it is, memories of the '40s dim by the day, but I think I can remember the wide diaphrams on many a streamliner around the country.  It has been suggested to me that SP may have been the main user of wide diaphrams, and now I have to question my "recall" of more wide spread use of them.  So my other question is: which railroads did/did not use the wide diaphrams?  One more, did any railroad that operated modernized heavyweights (alone or with lightweight equipment) ever apply the wide diaphrams to the heavyweights?  AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

Probably the same reason they dropped the skirts: access for maintenance. Also, the wide diaphragms also required more maintenance.
By the way, I always liked both!!

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

Skirts came off the Daylight and Lark around 1950.  New cars delivered in 1949 had skirts and those delivered in 1950 did not.  The stainless steel skirts on the 1949 Shasta cars remained until they were removed do to damage.  Some photos of Shasta cars around 1960 still had skirts.  Full-width diaphragms were in place on new cars delivered in 1954.  The 1955 dome lounge cars did not have full-width diaphragms.  I think by 1957 all full-width diaphragms were gone.

Jeff

Truly interesting, and odd, was the fact Santa Fe actually added skirting to a few of its sleepers. Beginning with the 1949 order for 10-6 cars from Budd and other sleepers from ACF and the PS chair cars, diners, and lunch counter cars, skirting was omitted. Then beginning sometime later in 1951, skirting began to be added to existing sleepers. I believe the 1951 order for Palm 10-6 cars which were originally ordered without skirting was amended to include them. The 1953 order for Budd chairs cars included skirting. Confused? The sleeper skirting program continued through 1954 and was ended in 1955 after partially completed.

Beginning in 1954 (and possibly earlier), skirting actually began to be removed from other cars, including diners, chair cars, and of course sleepers, some of which had skirting added a few years prior. The only class of cars that came with skirting that was never removed, to my knowledge, were the Budd built lunch counter diners, both the pre and post-war classes. I don't include the hi-level fleet or big domes because their skirting was most likely part of the structure and was not in place for cosmetic reasons.

 

Anyone have a take on how many roads around the country used the wide diaphrams.  My general recall from that era says many roads used them, but recent conversations I've had have caused me to reconsider, and to doubt my memory....not to mention the doubts caused by old age. AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

ATSF3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truly interesting, and odd, was the fact Santa Fe
> actually added skirting to a few of its sleepers.
> Beginning with the 1949 order for 10-6 cars from
> Budd and other sleepers from ACF and the PS chair
> cars, diners, and lunch counter cars, skirting was
> omitted. Then beginning sometime later in 1951,
> skirting began to be added to existing
> sleepers. I believe the 1951 order for Palm 10-6
> cars which were originally ordered without
> skirting was amended to include them. The 1953
> order for Budd chairs cars included skirting.
> Confused? The sleeper skirting program continued
> through 1954 and was ended in 1955 after partially
> completed.
>
> Beginning in 1954 (and possibly earlier), skirting
> actually began to be removed from other cars,
> including diners, chair cars, and of course
> sleepers, some of which had skirting added a few
> years prior. The only class of cars that came with
> skirting that was never removed, to my knowledge,
> were the Budd built lunch counter diners, both the
> pre and post-war classes. I don't include the
> hi-level fleet or big domes because their skirting
> was most likely part of the structure and was not
> in place for cosmetic reasons.
>
>
Santa Fe added the skirts to the sleepers because they were used on the Super Chief and they wanted them to match the rest of the train.  

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ATSF3751 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Truly interesting, and odd, was the fact Santa
> Fe
> > actually added skirting to a few of its
> sleepers.
> > Beginning with the 1949 order for 10-6 cars
> from
> > Budd and other sleepers from ACF and the PS
> chair
> > cars, diners, and lunch counter cars, skirting
> was
> > omitted. Then beginning sometime later in 1951,
> > skirting began to be added to existing
> > sleepers. I believe the 1951 order for Palm
> 10-6
> > cars which were originally ordered without
> > skirting was amended to include them. The 1953
> > order for Budd chairs cars included skirting.
> > Confused? The sleeper skirting program
> continued
> > through 1954 and was ended in 1955 after
> partially
> > completed.
> >
> > Beginning in 1954 (and possibly earlier),
> skirting
> > actually began to be removed from other cars,
> > including diners, chair cars, and of course
> > sleepers, some of which had skirting added a
> few
> > years prior. The only class of cars that came
> with
> > skirting that was never removed, to my
> knowledge,
> > were the Budd built lunch counter diners, both
> the
> > pre and post-war classes. I don't include the
> > hi-level fleet or big domes because their
> skirting
> > was most likely part of the structure and was
> not
> > in place for cosmetic reasons.
> >
> >
> Santa Fe added the skirts to the sleepers because
> they were used on the Super Chief and they wanted
> them to match the rest of the train.  

The story goes that member of the Board of Directors came down to Dearborn to see the new equipment and were not pleased with the appearence of the unskirted cars.

Google was not my friend when I attempted to learn more about the use of, and discontinuance of, wide diaphrams.  A few photos came up, and I saw that trains of the Wabash, Burlington, and GM&O, and the UP Train of Tomorrow  were photographed with them.  B&O and Milwaukee trains of the same era lacked them. Talk about an incomplete list, eh?  As a skirt enthusiast, I really did like the story of the reapplication of skirts on the Santa Fe.  AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA