Nostalgia & History > Another Colorful Early Consist for our Amtrak Fans

SP SDP45’s 3202 and 3208 in charge of an early Amtrak train.  Lots of former Santa Fe equipment, some UP, a couple SP and some I didn’t recognize.
I don't even pretend to be an expert, hell, I'm not even a novice, really. Any help, info, corrections, whatever you good folks have, please, add them in.

I'd be especially grateful if anyone knows what train this was.

Nice touch; SP company car Stanford bringing up the rear, dressed as God and the Southern Pacific intended her to be.  But first, let’s work our way thru the train:
I *think* I have the consist in order...

1-2. SDP45’s.  I’m honestly not sure where this is, but Mr. Benedict rarely left the Bay Area… anyone recognize the location?  I want to say College Park, perhaps?

3. Former Santa Fe Baggage/REA.  Can’t make out the number for sure.  Might be 3657. 

Hang on, more to come!

Any additional info, corrections, most appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
.

Walter
Sanfranciscotrains.org
JR Benedict photos throughout. Used with permission

 



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/15 06:46 by drumwrencher.

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4. Santa Fe Regal River

5. Amtrak 2712, Pine Brook. You can still make out “Santa Fe”.

6: Santa Fe Pine Arroyo.
 

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7.  UP Pacific Island. I *think* it’s the 423.

8.  Amtrak 8033 or 8035. Pretty sure you can still see the “Santa Fe” lettering.

9.  Can’t make out the number, but Santa Fe ain’t exactly invisible…
 

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10. Another former Santa Fe, in Amtrak garb. Does it look like 4134 to you? Sry for the hazy pics. They are 40 – something years old.

11. UP 4450.

12. Another former Santa Fe.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/15 07:24 by drumwrencher.

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13. Amtrak Harvest Inn.

14, 15. You got me. Santa Fe?
 

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16,17.  One of my favorites, an ex Daylight (San Joaquin?) articulated chair car. Sorry I can’t make out the number.

18. The Stanford.
 
That’s all I have folks. I hope you all enjoyed it. And, thanks again, in advance, for any corrections, additions, or even better eyesight on some of the details I missed!

 I like passenger equipment, especially vintage, but, like I said, I’m no expert.  So, please bear with me folks: I admit to being a rookie, but I feel we all need to enjoy these photographs. They’ve been hidden away in some dusty photo album for far too long.

Walter



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/15 06:28 by drumwrencher.

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I'm guessing Coast Staright.  For us early Amtrak roster shot junkies, this post is awesome!

Man, that's a lot of Kodachrome!  A fantastic set.  Thanks.  

Marty Bernard

Passenger train photos -- including the passenger cars? Stop spoiling us!

The Articulated Chair Car number is a little easier to pin down because of the replacement single-bolster helical spring trucks on the non-articulated ends. A relatively few cars got that mod during SP service, and fewer still went to Amtrak. It's a dead ringer for the car currently under restoration and in operation at Niles Canyon, SP 2473-74, but that one went to Algoma Central but not Amtrak. 

SP 2463-64, built for the Noon Daylight in May of 1941, had the odd mismatched exhaust vents above the restrooms on each unit. That car became Amtrak 7528-29 in 1973, and is likely the car shown. 

Thanks for this series! Photos of passenger cars on a passenger train! What next? :-)

~ BZ

Nice series.  The horrors of barf interiors, plastic windows and bad-order everything were now beginning.

I find it so hard to be nostalgic for this most uncomfortable of all passenger train travel eras. But then, I miss and am grateful for the riding I did in the 1960s. And to a previous generation brought up on the splendor of the Streamline Era, that was "bottom" -- the '60s I loved.

But every time I see fading stripes and a Pointless Arrow on an old stainless car with wavy and dented fluting, I can almost smell the insides. It was not a pretty time, for comfort, amenities, onboard aromas, decor, or seeing anything recognizable outside the yellowed and opaque Lexan™ outer window panes (which, as WP-M2051 reminds, is a flower just blossoming here).

Still, it was a rainbow circus for equipment fans -- as long as you didn't ride -- and there was entertainment value in that alone, as here. And those SP cars looked better with silver trucks and underbodies. So there's that too. And these trains survived to spawn another generation, against all odds. So there's always sunshine where there's a rainbow. :-)

~ BZ

 

Yeah, very cool. I'd buy a ticket to ride this classic equipment !
The Coast Starlight, for sure, with 4 sleepers, 6 coaches plus
the artic, but no dome. When was the SP power replaced? Must have
been 1974 or earlier?

May 1974

Thanks for sharing!  I love these kinds of post showing the whole train consist!  Very interesting.

If that was indeed the ATSF 3657, it made it to the HEP program as the 1168 and shows wrecked  Nov 1993 in the Amtrak by the Numbers book(Elbert&Simon).

wonderful series. thanks. i am always struck by how long the early amtrak consists were compared to now. are the current tall cars that much greater capacity than the heritage ones? or has ridership declined? or both? i know the group on trainorders will have the facts on the situation...

Jamie Yeager
Santa Fe, NM

Superliners have considerably more capacity than the cars in these scenes

Walter,

Thanks for posting these early Amtrak consist photos!  Here's what I can tell you about the equipment seen:

Photo #3: AT&SF baggage-messenger #3657 was one of ten such cars (#3650-#3659) built by Budd in 1953 in Lot #9605-135, these cars were delivered between November and December 1953.  Budd order #135 was placed by the Santa Fe in September 1952 and consisted of 105 cars in 4 different Lots.  The other 95 cars were: forty additional baggage-messenger cars (#3500-#3539) built in Lot #9601-135, delivered between June and December 1953; ten 60' Railway Post Offices (#89-#98) built in Lot #9607-135, delivered between January and February 1954; and forty-five 48 seat leg rest chairs (coaches in modern parlance) (#2816-#2860) built in Lot #9613-135, delivered between September and December 1953, with Karpen leg rest seats.  21 of these chairs (#2816-#2836) were equipped with electro-mechanical air conditioning, whereas 24 of these chairs (#2837-#2860) were equipped with steam ejector A/C, which was Santa Fe's traditional preferred A/C method.  The majority of these 105 cars were among the over 400 cars that Santa Fe sold to Amtrak in 1971.  Excluded from the sale were: all 10 of the RPO's, which had been leased to the New Haven, and 8 had been sold in 1968 to "Constructora Nacional de Carros"; 6 of the Lot #9601-135 baggage cars, #3508 was wrecked in 1960, 3 (#3503, #3507, and #3513) were sold in 1971 to Metal Processing Industries in Vinton, TX, and 2 (#3529 and #3530) were not sold for an unknown reason; and 3 of the chairs, #2828 and #2839 were wrecked in 1960, and #2825 was sold in 1971 to the National Railroad Company in Tulsa, but Amtrak acquired it several years later as a parts supply.  Of the cars from this order which Amtrak acquired: 34 of the Lot #9601-135 cars were renumbered to #1020-#1053, all 10 of the Lot #9605-135 cars were renumbered to #1100-#1109 (#3657 as #1107), and the 42 chairs were renumbered to #4810-#4828 and #4850-#4872 (electro-mechanical and steam ejector cars respectively).  The 2 groups of baggage cars from this order represent a majority of Amtrak's still-active Budd-built baggage cars (the Budd baggage cars in the #17xx-series were all rebuilt from chairs [coaches], several of these were rebuilt from Santa Fe chairs built in this order), and there are still a handful of AC&F-built ex-Santa Fe baggage cars which remain active.  Specifically, the #3657/#1107 was converted in 1980 to head end power (HEP, or Heritage) #1168 (2nd), and was wrecked in November 1993 (I don't know which train, the date, or where the wreck occurred).

Photo #4: AT&SF 4 double bedroom-4 compartment-2 drawing room (4DB-4C-2DR) sleeper #1829 Regal River, built by P-S in 1948 in Lot #6757 to Plan #4144, 1 of 16 such cars built in that Lot, which was ordered in July 1945; cars were delivered between December 1947 and February 1948.  A 17th car built in Lot #6833 was delivered in March 1948; this car had been ordered in April 1947.  An additional 15 cars built by AC&F in Lot #3358 to Plan #9011 were delivered between September and November 1950; these cars had been ordered in January 1948.  In 1971, Amtrak acquired 12 of the 17 P-S cars as #2360-#2371 (the Regal River as #2367), and 3 of the 15 AC&F cars as #2350-#2352.  The #1829/#2367 was 1 of 4 cars retired in 1981 and sold in 1982 to the Memphis Transportation Museum (MTM); the #2367 as #800200 Joseph S. Signaigo, the #1806/#2361 Regal City as #800331 Winston Hoover, the #1818/#2365 Regal Hill as #800262 Rose Orgel, and the #1821/#2351 Regal Inn as the #800261.

Photos #5 and #6: AT&SF 10 roomette-6 double bedroom (10RM-6DB) sleepers #1621 Pine Brook and #1617 Pine Arroyo were built by Budd in 1949 in Lot #9660-038 to Plan #9521, 2 of 27 such cars (#1617-#1643) built in that Lot, which was ordered in January 1948; cars were delivered between December 1949 and March 1950.  In 1971, 23 of these cars were sold to Amtrak as #2710-#2732, the Pine Brook as #2712 and the Pine Arroyo as #2710.  This excluded 4 cars which had been retired and sold in 1968: #1619 Pine Bell and #1623 Pine Cove were sold to Industrial Service & Salvage in Joliet, IL, #1620 Pine Bluff was sold to W. Silver & Company in Anthony, TX, and #1632 Pine Hill was sold to M.S.R.E. (what did this stand for?) in Calumet City, IL, and was acquired by Amtrak in 1974 as #2733.  Amtrak later converted 22 of their cars to head end power in 2 groups: 18 cars were converted in 1977-1978 as #2980-#2997, and 4 were converted in 1981 to #2457-#2460.  These 4 cars were made to be accessible, with one of the roomettes and the adjacent porter's room converted into an accessible room.  The #2712 Pine Brook was converted in 1977 to #2995, and was reconfigured in 1997 to crew dormitory-lounge #2500 with the removal of the bedrooms.  The #2500 was stored at Beech Grove in 2006.  The #2710 Pine Arroyo was converted in 1977 to #2983, and was reconfigured in 1998 to dorm-lounge #2515.  The #2515 was stored at Beech Grove in 2007.

Photo #7: UP 10RM-6DB sleeper #1423 Pacific Island was built by Budd in 1950 in Lot #9660-039 to Plan #9522, 1 of 50 such cars built in that Lot, which was ordered in February 1948; cars were delivered between December 1949 and June 1950.  Besides Pacific Empire, which was wrecked in 1951, the other 49 cars were assigned #14xx-series numbers in 1969, the Pacific Island was assigned #1423, which was applied in November 1969.  5 cars were sold to the Milwaukee Road in 1969, 1 car was retained by UP, and the other 43 cars were sold to Amtrak in 1971 as #2600-#2642, Pacific Island as #2617.  Besides 3 which were wrecked during Amtrak's first decade, the remaining 40 cars were converted to head end power in 3 batches, the 1st group of 13 cars were converted in 1977-1978, including Pacific Island, which was converted to #2917 in May 1977.  The Pacific Island was listed for sale in August 2001, and was acquired by The Sleeper Line, which had also acquired the #1437/#2630/#2881 Pacific Sands and the #1446/#2639/#2890 Pacific Union in 1995.  These 2 cars were leased to VIA Rail in 1999, but may not have seen use, and were returned to The Sleeper Line in 2000 due to asbestos concerns.  All 3 cars were then sold to various new owners: the Pacific Sands is now owned by Pullman Adventures as #800355 and is part of the LA Rail fleet, the Pacific Union is now owned by American Rail Excursions as #800640, and the Pacific Island was sold to Dominion Rail Voyages and reconfigured to sleeper lounge Mount Vernon (#800708).

Photo #8: If this is the #8033, it was built by Budd in 1937 in Lot #976 as AT&SF 36 seat diner #1481, 1 of 10 such cars (#1475-#1484) built in that Lot, which was ordered in February 1937; cars were delivered in May 1937.  5 of these cars were sold to Amtrak in 1971 as #8030-#8034.  Amtrak increased the seating on 4 of these cars: #1479/#8031 and #1483/#8034 were increased to 46 seats, #1477/#8030 and #8033 were increased to 48 seats, and #1480/#8032 kept the same number of seats.  The #8033 was retired in July 1981 and sold for scrap to the Naparano Iron & Metal Company in Newark, NJ.  If this is the #8035, it was built by Budd in 1938 in Lot #989 as AT&SF 48 seat diner #1486, 1 of 2 such cars (#1486-#1487) built in that Lot, which was ordered in August 1937; these cars were delivered in February 1938.  The #1486 was sold to Amtrak in 1971.  The #1486/#8035 was stored in February 1981 and sold in 1983 to Excursion Lines.  I have no further disposition/current status information on this car, nor on many of the cars acquired by Excursion Lines.  I'm thinking that the car seen here is the #8033, as the window and roof vent arrangements match those of the #1479/#8031, which was also stored in February 1981 and sold in 1983 to the Utica & Mohawk Valley Chapter NRHS, currently at the Utica Children's Museum.  But seeing as how I don't know of any photos of either the #1486 or #1487 available online for viewing, I can't say for certain that the external features of the Lot #989 cars are different from those of the Lot #976 cars.

Photo #9: This is 1 of 3 cars (AT&SF #1347-#1349) built by P-S in 1947 in Lot #6734 to Plan #7507 for the El Capitan as 51 seat club lounges, with writing desk, news stand, and nurse's room.  Santa Fe retained the #1348, which was renumbered in 1974 to #62, and is now BNSF #29/#800635 Valley View.  The other 2 cars were sold in 1971 to Amtrak as #3350 and #3351.  The #1347/#3350 was stored in 1978 and sold in 1980 to Marvin Robertson, located in the Lawrence, KS, area.  The car was later donated by Robertson's estate to the UP station group in Topeka, and moved there c. 2012.  The #1349/#3351 was retired in July 1981 and sold in 1982 to J. Gilliano/Santa Maria Valley RR in Santa Maria, CA.  A few years later, while stored outside the railroad's shops, the car was set on fire by vandals, and was subsequently sold to the Golden Gate RR Museum as a parts source.

Photo #10: This a former Santa Fe 44 seat leg rest chair built by P-S in either 1947 or 1950.  51 of these chairs (#2861-#2911) were built in 1947 in Lot #6734 to Plan #7503.  45 of these 51 cars were ordered in August 1944 for the El Capitan, and the remaining 6 (#2866, #2868, #2871, #2885, #2890, and #2891) were ordered in April 1946 for the Texas Chief.  All 51 cars were delivered between April and October 1947, and had Karpen leg rest seats.  At least 7 (#2861, #2867, #2869, #2873, #2878, #2880, and #2889) of these 51 cars were equipped with electro-mechanical A/C, while the rest had steam ejector A/C.  The second group of 34 cars (#2912-#2945) were built in 1950 in Lot #W6842 to Plan #7503A.  The "W" designation indicates that these cars were built at Pullman's former Osgood-Bradley plant in Worcester, MA.  These 34 cars were ordered in February 1948, also for the El Capitan, and were delivered between March and July 1950.  Most had Karpen leg rest seats, but 3 cars (I don't know which) instead had Heywood-Wakefield leg rest seats.  From what I can tell, all 34 of these cars had steam ejector A/C.  In 1971, 45 of the Lot #6734 cars and 31 of the Lot #W6842 cars were sold to Amtrak.  Interestingly, the 6 Lot #6734 cars which did not go to Amtrak were those ordered for the Texas Chief: 2 had been wrecked, 2 were scrapped in 1968, and the remaining 2 were sold to PC/New Jersey DOT in 1972 and converted to 108 seat commuter coaches.  The 45 Lot #6734 cars acquired were renumbered to #4470-#4476 (the 7 electro-mechanical A/C cars mentioned) and #4480-#4517.  The 31 Lot #W6842 cars acquired were renumbered to #4518-#4548.  Of the 3 Lot #W6842 cars not acquired, one had been wrecked when brand-new in 1950 (the #2918), and the body was subsequently sold to Paramount Pictures, one was scrapped in 1968, and the third car was also sold to PC/NJDOT in 1972 and converted to a 108 seat commuter coach.  If the last 2 digits of the car seen in this photo are indeed "34", then this would be the #2931/#4534, built in Lot #W6842.  The #4534 was retired in October 1981 and sold in 1982 to the Heart of Dixie Chapter NRHS/Heart of Dixie RR Museum in Calera, AL.

Photo #11: Amtrak 44 seat leg rest chair #4450 was built by Budd in 1961 in Lot #9613-230 as UP #5518, 1 of 20 such cars (#5508-#5527) built in that Lot, which was ordered in March 1960; cars were delivered between February and May 1961.  In 1971, all 20 of these cars were sold to Amtrak as #4440-#4459.   However, #5523 did not have #4455 applied; instead it was reconfigured in 1974 to 60 seat coach #6062, retired in 1976 and sold for scrap to Ampol Wrecking in Indianapolis.  The remaining 19 cars were converted to head end power in 1980-1981 as #4627-#4645, the #4450 was converted to #4630 in August 1980.  In 1995-1996, Amtrak rebuilt 13 of these cars to #17xx-series center roll-up door baggage-express cars as #1701 and #1728-#1739; the #4630 was rebuilt to #1731 in July 1996.  Like some other groups of cars (ex-AT&SF diners come to mind), the #4450 is an example of a car acquired by Amtrak, that for the simple purpose of renumbering equipment as quickly as possible, simply had a renumbering patch added, with no other Amtrak identification.  At the moment, I don't know if any of the other 19 cars from this Lot were so patched, but I suspect this was the case.  By the way, there is another photo of the #4450, taken of the vestibule end, which also shows the patch.  This photo can be found on page #138 of "Amtrak by the Numbers".  It was taken by Jack Ferry in May 1972 of the #4450 in the consist of the northbound Abraham Lincoln departing Chicago Union Station past Lake Street Tower towards Milwaukee.  Also, there is only one car from this group of 20 for which I have not been able to find any disposition for: #5511/#4443/#4644, retired in 1997.

Photo #12: another one of the P-S built ex-AT&SF Plan #7503/#7503A 44 seat leg rest chairs.

Photo #13: Amtrak 9 seat lunch counter 34 seat lounge #8382 Harvest Inn was built by Budd in 1948 in Lot #9670-017 as C&O #1701, a 32 seat chair, with 10 seat theater, playroom, and baby food preparation/diaper changing room.  The #1701 was 1 of 3 such cars (#1700-#1702) built in that Lot, which was part of C&O's order for the planned Chessie streamliner placed in July 1945; these 3 cars were delivered in July 1948.  After the Chessie was cancelled, these cars were sold to C&EI in 1951.  C&EI rebuilt the #1700-#1701 to 47 seat buffet lounges #605 Magnolia Blossom and #606 Magnolia Gardens.  The #605 was wrecked in 1957, and in 1965 the #606 was rebuilt to the 9 seat lunch counter-34 seat lounge configuration as the #606 Harvest Inn.  In 1970, it was renumbered to L&N #2802, and was sold in 1971 to Amtrak as #8382.  In 1976, it was renumbered to #3365 and the name Harvest Inn was removed.  The #3365 was sold in April 1983 to "Cuppery & DeYoung", and I don't have any further disposition information on this car.  Meanwhile, the #1702 was initially renumbered in 1951 to C&EI #475, and was rebuilt the following year to a buffet-30 seat parlor-12 seat lounge-4 seat drawing room as #703 Woodland; the number of parlor seats was reduced by 2.  In 1967, it was renumbered to #34, with the name Woodland removed, and in 1969 was rebuilt to L&N instruction car #40100.  The #40100 shows up in the Seaboard System roster as late as 1984 (per Randall's "RPC Annual, Volume 6", but it apparently did not get renumbered into the CSX roster.  I don't have any current info for the #40100.

Behind the Harvest Inn is a former AT&SF 48 seat leg rest chair built by Budd in 1953 in Lot #9613-135.

Photos #14 and #15: 2 additional P-S built ex-AT&SF Plan #7503/#7503A 44 seat leg rest chairs

Photos #16 and #17: as identified by Notch16, this is SP articulated chair #2463-#2464.  This was 1 of 14 pairs (#2457-#2484) built by P-S in 1941 in Lot #6638.  Both halves originally had 46 seats, odd numbered cars were built to Plan #7424A with men's restrooms (SP Class 66-ACM-2) and even numbered cars were built to Plan #7423A with women's restrooms (SP Class 66-ACW-2).  3 pairs had the seating increased per half to 50 in 1968: #2457-#2458, #2459-#2460, and #2473-#2474.  In 1973, 4 pairs (#2457-#2458, #2463-#2464, #2467-#2468, #2469-#2470) were sold to Amtrak as #7526-#7533.  These 4 pairs were part of a group of cars acquired from SP in 1973 and all numbered in the #75xx-series, as a stop-gap measure due to increased passenger loadings resulting from the 1973 oil crisis.  Of these 4 pairs, #7526-#7527 were sold in 1976 to Rail Service Industries in Mira Loma, CA; #7528-#7529, as seen here, were sold in 1977 to Kyle Railways/Yreka Western (I don't have any further disposition info); #7530-#7531 were also sold to Kyle/Yreka, leased to the California Western, then moved to the San Pedro & Southwestern in Benson, AZ, and later sold to the Pacific RR Society, currently at Orange Empire; and #7532-#7533 were also sold to Rail Service Industries.  Of the 10 pairs from this Lot not sold to Amtrak, 1 pair (#2461-#2462) was scrapped in 1965, 2 pairs (#2465-#2466 and #2483-#2484) were scrapped in 1966, 1 pair (#2475-#2476) was sold for scrap in 1969 to Associated Metals in Benicia, CA, 1 pair (#2481-#2482) was sold for scrap in 1971 to the Purdy Company, 1 pair (#2479-#2480) was sold in 1971 to an unknown party, and the remaining 4 pairs were sold in 1974 to Algoma Central.  #2459-#2460 to #457-#456, no further info.  #2471-#2472 to #461-#460 transferred to MofW in 1975 as kitchen-staff car #10673/diner lounge #10672.  #2473-#2474 to #458-#459, sold in 1988 to the Bytown RY Society, resold in 1996 to the Golden Gate RR Museum, now owned by the Pacific Locomotive Association/Niles Canyon RY.  #2477-#2478 to #463-#462, transferred to MofW in 1975 as supervisor bunk car #10015/auxiliary bunk car #10014.  Amtrak and Algoma Central also acquired articulated pairs built by P-S in 1937 in Lot #6515 to Plans #7377/#7378 with 50 chairs per half, most later increased to 54, including T&NO #502-#503/SP #2498-#2499/Algoma Central #452-#453, which was later owned by Doyle McCormack and is now Montana Rail Link #102A-#102B.  Interestingly, neither acquired pairs built either in 1937 in Lot #6500 to Plans #7377/#7378 or in 1939 in Lot #6594 to Plans #7423/#7424.  The only surviving pair from Lot #6594 is #2445-#2446, which was sold in 1968 to the California Western, and was later moved to the San Pedro & SW, although I don't know where this pair is now.

Posting from Estes Park, CO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/15 13:30 by Rainier_Rails.

Rainier_Rails Wrote:
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> Walter,
>
> Thanks for posting these early Amtrak consist
> photos!  Here's what I can tell you about the
> equipment seen:

Wow!  I don't belive "Thank You" even comes close. But thank you, Ted. Your post is what I could only hope for!

Walter



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/15 12:55 by drumwrencher.

mp51w Wrote:
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> I'm guessing Coast Staright.  For us early Amtrak
> roster shot junkies, this post is awesome!

Thank you!

Glad you enjoyed the post. 

Walter