Nostalgia & History > Maroon Monday - What This Merger Means to You

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Playing the "what if" card...One wonders how the rest of the railroads would've lined up had this actually happened, if the UP/MOP would've even happened...
It's like the NW/C&O/B&O merger that was in the works when PC went bankrupt...the scene would've looked a little different then...but I"m guessing not too different that how it is now.
thanks for posting this, I'm always fascinated by the "what if" scenarios in railroad mergers.

Looking at that simplified map, maybe UP and SP should have split the Rock with SP getting everything south of KC.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/15 07:35 by CPR_4000.

CPR_4000 Wrote:
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> Looking at that simplified map, maybe UP and SP
> should have split the Rock with SP getting
> everything south of KC.

If you read it, you will find that that is exactly what was proposed.

But I think SP should have got KC - Silvis and the Silvis Hump plus Silvis - South Chicago should have been joint.

Best regards,

Rob L.

I've read that this plan was around for a while, wasn't there a third RR involved? Maybe the Milwaukee?

The story I read was the Rock Island deferred track repairs expecting the merger and went from a healthy RR in the 50's to abandonment. Part of the story was the older trackage spread across a large area and lighter weight 40 ft box cars againest the challenge of the newer 100 ton grain cars.

Back when the UP-RI merger was first purposed, Downing Jenks declared the Missouri Pacific would have to close the Pueblo Gateway, and  would probably have to abandon the KC-Pueblo line. Ironically enough, that is just what happened,but not because of the  UP RI merger,but something that in 1964 would have thought to have been impossible; the  Rio Grande owning the SP, and the UP acquiring both of them.  David P. Morgan had a excellent editorial in the December,1965 issue of Trains entitled "Trouble on the Prairie ",which is worth reading again 50 years later.   

Also the loss of big steel to Pacific Rim countries. Most of Pueblo looked like a recyle scrap yard when I went through there a few years ago.

As mentioned, there's been quite a few changes in the landscape. The demise of the classic RR of the early 1900's being a big one for us.
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... would have to close the Pueblo Gateway,
> and  would probably have to abandon the KC-Pueblo
> line. Ironically enough, that is just what
> happened,but not because of the  UP RI
> merger,but something that in 1964 would
> have thought to have been impossible;
...

Thanks for the tip - I'll have to look that issue up.  Sounds quite interesting! 

mopacrr Wrote:
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>David P. Morgan had a excellent editorial
> in the December,1965 issue of Trains entitled
> "Trouble on the Prairie ",which is worth reading
> again 50 years later.   

Seems like a slam dunk when you read this, but.....

Buy the book ' Rock Island Requiem' and you will find it most revealing if you were not around back at that time.

Mr. Heineman with the C&NW was wanting the Milwaukee Road, CGW desparately wanting to keep his connection with the UP at Omaha and did everything he could to screw up the Rock Island merger with anyone, especially the UP. He didn't really even want the Rock for the C&NW. There was a proposed Rock Island North as well as Rock Island South contemplated. The Rock Island tried to work a deal tokeep their North - South route to the gulf also.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/15 03:44 by dcfbalcoS1.

TCnR Wrote:
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> I've read that this plan was around for a while,
> wasn't there a third RR involved? Maybe the
> Milwaukee?

The UP Board started it. The Rock happily agreed. SP agreed. The proposal was submitted to the ICC. All the other railroads threw a hissy fit.

>
> The story I read was the Rock Island deferred
> track repairs expecting the merger and went from a
> healthy RR in the 50's to abandonment. Part of the
> story was the older trackage spread across a large
> area and lighter weight 40 ft box cars against
> the challenge of the newer 100 ton grain cars.

The Rock was already in trouble when the merger was announced. From the point of view of Rock management at the time and its board, the merger was the only hope to save the road. Even without the prospect of the merger, the Rock had no choice but to defer maintenance.

Best regards,

Rob L.

rantoul Wrote:
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> Would a mid1970's era UP-RI merger have made the
> C&NW Ames Iowa to Fremont/Omaha NE line
> functionally obsolete, causing C&NW to find a
> merge partner, or...?

As noted below, the UP-RI merger probably would have been a death knell for the CNW. Heineman did a brilliant job of fighting the UP-RI merger.

Best regards,

Rob L.

dcfbalcoS1 Wrote:
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> Buy the book ' Rock Island Requiem' and you will
> find it most revealing if you were not around back
> at that time.
>
> Mr. Heineman with the C&NW was wanting the
> Milwaukee Road, GCW desparately wanting to keep
> his connection with the UP at Omaha and did
> everything he could to screw up the Rock Island
> merger with anyone, especially the UP. He didn't
> really even want the Rock for the C&NW.

Who or what is "GCW"? Typo?

TIA,

Rob L.

Chicago Great Western,  I got the initials fouled up there. Corrected in the original text now.

Another good book is "Visionary Railroader" by H. Roger Grant.
It is about Jervis Langdon who was once the Rock Island's Chairman of the Board.
The way I read it, Langdon blamed the arrogance of UP attorneys and upper management
for the problems in getting the merger approved. 

Every day the UP still pays the price for not getting the Rock.
Instead of a quick trip from Silvis to the eastern connections at
Blue Island and South Chicago, they line up nose to tail waiting for
a route from Proviso through the Chicago Terminal.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/15 11:12 by Englewood.

Englewood Wrote:
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> Anothrer good book is "Visionary Railroader" by H.
> Roger Grant.
> It is about Jervis Langdon who was once the Rock
> Island's Chairman of the Board.
> The way I read it, Langdon blamed the arrogance of
> UP attorneys and upper management
> for the problems in getting the merger
> approved. 

"Upper" here really means the UP Board. The RI merger proposal was entirely an initiative of the UP Board in New York and took the UP Omaha management by surprise. The Omaha management was freaked out by it and had little or no participation in efforts to get it approved.

>
> Every day the UP still pays the price for not
> getting the Rock.
> Instead of a quick trip from Silvis to the eastern
> connections at
> Blue Island and South Chicago, they line up nose
> to tail waiting for
> a route from Proviso through the Chicago
> Terminal.
>  

Very true. The ideal eastern end of the UP would have included portions of both the CNW and RI, with a new RR line built down the Iowa River valley from the CNW at Belle Plaine to the Rock in order to come in through Silvis to South Chicago.

Best regards,

Rob L.

Interesting discussion.
Didn't know about the C&NW element to the story. Interesting how it all turned out, everybody working for the MoPac (don't have that one bookmarked on this PC).