Nostalgia & History > UP 7021, Strange tender hoses

Here is an 8x10 detail print by R. H. Kindig, from the Dave England Collection. UP 7021 on September 4, 1939.

What are the three small hoses along the bottom of the water tank for?

Don Strack



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/16 07:47 by donstrack.

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Here's a WAG: since there's one over each axle of the truck, maybe they're for rail washers? (I see that they're not  connected.)

donstrack Wrote:
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> Here is an 8x10 detail print by R. H. Kindig, from
> the Dave Englan Collection. UP 7021 on September
> 4, 1939.
>
> What are the houses along the bottom of the wanter
> tank for?
>
> Don Strack

Don,

They are for putting out journal fires.

J.

Could they be used to couple to aux-water car?

J.Ferris Wrote:
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> They are for putting out journal fires.

Y'know, that occurred to me, but when I noticed the valves are right above the journals, I thought you'd have to brave the flames to turn on the water.

They were called "Keeley Hoses" (don't ask where the name came from - I don't know).  It was not unusual for tenders to have these on them, long with a short pipe nipple on the journal box to attach the hose to in order to cool the offending box.  I've seen several tenders with Keeley hose valves under them.  Some roads also rigged up Keeley's to cool the driving boxes on the locomotives as well.

Keeley was a name that railroaders picked up to use referring to the treatment of hotboxes. 
See the attached Wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeley_Institute

We have several portable "Keeley Cans" that the Burlington made, that have light chains to secure it to the freight car body.
Attached to it was a long rubber hose with a regulating valve to control water flow to the hot bearing.
This was to allow the car to be moved to the nearest set off point for proper repair.

These cans are marked "Burlington" and I have never seen anything like it from any other railroad. 
I would be curious to know if others exist in one form or another.  
Does anyone else have knowledge of these or more information??

Frisco had a feature on their heavier engines.  There is a jet on the back of the valve gear hanger with a water/air connection that sprayed on the main pin.  We never used the ones on 1522 since the main pins never ran hot, but like the booster it was there if you needed it.

Gee, do they look kinda like this? In the second photo the valve is visable. A Friend has one that has never been used. Bye the way I need a lid if anyone has a spare.
Steve

MontourMan Wrote:
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> Keeley was a name that railroaders picked up to
> use referring to the treatment of hotboxes. 
> See the attached Wikipedia link:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeley_Institute
>
> We have several portable "Keeley Cans" that the
> Burlington made, that have light chains to secure
> it to the freight car body.
> Attached to it was a long rubber hose with a
> regulating valve to control water flow to the hot
> bearing.
> This was to allow the car to be moved to the
> nearest set off point for proper repair.
>
> These cans are marked "Burlington" and I have
> never seen anything like it from any other
> railroad. 
> I would be curious to know if others exist in one
> form or another.  
> Does anyone else have knowledge of these or more
> information??

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Well, count me dumb.  (But I really know little about steam engines anyway.)  The only "hose" I see is attached to the front of the
lead truck.  Along the bottom of the tender appears to be a pole used to push cars when the locomotive couldn't get close, a long
outlawed practice.  Now, if the hose attached to the front of the truck is what posters have said it was, then I learned something
new as I'd never heard of that before.  

Nick Tharalson,
Marion, IA

ntharalson Wrote:
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> Well, count me dumb.  (But I really know little
> about steam engines anyway.)  The only "hose" I
> see is attached to the front of the
> lead truck.

That big flex hose is for the water transfer from the tender to the engine feedwater system, i.e. it is NOT connected to the front of the tender's "lead truck".

 Along the bottom of the
> tender appears to be a pole used to push cars
> when the locomotive couldn't get close, a long
> outlawed practice.

That is the trainlined steam line, which is also wrapped with insulation, thus making it appear to be wood.

 Now, if the hose attached to
> the front of the truck is what posters have said
> it was, then I learned something
> new as I'd never heard of that before.

You are missing the three little rubber hoses, each coiled up and hanging from a a small shut-off valve, generally located directly above each of the tender truck journal boxes. 

> Nick Tharalson,
> Marion, IA

Earlk Wrote:
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> They were called "Keeley Hoses" (don't ask where
> the name came from - I don't know).  It was not
> unusual for tenders to have these on them, long
> with a short pipe nipple on the journal box to
> attach the hose to in order to cool the offending
> box.  I've seen several tenders with Keeley hose
> valves under them.  Some roads also rigged up
> Keeley's to cool the driving boxes on the
> locomotives as well.

I have looked at possibly 2,000 photos of UP steam locomotives over the past year or so as I have been scanning the various collections. I have never noticed the hoses before.

It appaears that UP used them a lot, since every mainline locomotive I have looked at had them, starting in the 1930s. Here is a random photo of LA&SL 8802's tender, showing the six hoses very clearly.

Don Strack

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donstrack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Earlk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They were called "Keeley Hoses" (don't ask
> where
> > the name came from - I don't know).  It was
> not
> > unusual for tenders to have these on them, long
> > with a short pipe nipple on the journal box to
> > attach the hose to in order to cool the
> offending
> > box.  I've seen several tenders with Keeley
> hose
> > valves under them.  Some roads also rigged up
> > Keeley's to cool the driving boxes on the
> > locomotives as well.
>
> I have looked at possibly 2,000 photos of UP steam
> locomotives over the past year or so as I have
> been scanning the various collections. I have
> never noticed the hoses before.
>
> It appaears that UP used them a lot, since every
> mainline locomotive I have looked at had them,
> starting in the 1930s. Here is a random photo of
> LA&SL 8802's tender, showing the six hoses very
> clearly.
>
> Don Strack

Probably NOT on locomotives equipped with roller bearings, however.

Notice the pipe nipples (probably with pipe caps that we can't see in the photo, to keep out dust) on the rear faces of U.P. 7021's tender journal boxes.  In case of a hotbox, the small hose was connected to the pipe nipple, and the valve cracked open a little to trickle water onto the journal brass.  Water is an excellent heat absorber, and will prevent a hot-running [i.e. damaged] journal from dangerously overheating.  This allowed the engineer to get the train to safety.

4-6-2 S.P. 2472's tender (originally 4-8-2 S.P. 4326's tender) was also equipped with these cooling hoses for hotbox emergencies. 

- Doug Debs

DWDebs/2472 Wrote:
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> 4-6-2 S.P. 2472's tender (originally 4-8-2 S.P.
> 4326's tender) was also equipped with these
> cooling hoses for hotbox emergencies. 
>
> - Doug Debs

Remember that MANY Southern Pacific passenger steam locomotives had wheel "water coolers" on the engine trucks, trailing trucks and tender trucks, which sprayed water on the wheels during long down grade braking. 

I am surprised that they piped the water right into the bearing box, instead of cooling the outside.  I guess it was going to need some work anyway...   Did they flood them, or just let it trickle in, so it could change state?  Once that water flashed to steam, a great amount of heat was removed from the bearing/axle.

Yep that is the Keeley can.....glad to see that some others are out there.  One of ours is missing a lid as well.
The CNRwy also had valves and hoses piped on the underside of tenders into the side of the journal boxes  of certain locomotive classes, 2-6-0s and 4-6-0s comes to mind.

The cooling hoses...very interesting!  Now you've got me vigalant of all future steam pic viewing for these less-obvious appliances.  Thanks for the "wake up" here Don, and the great pics!!  

Until you've lived in an era of friction bearings and "hot boxes", it's tough for the younger folks accustomed to roller bearings to comprehend mixing moisture to hot oil, waste packing, and a (hopefully yet) babbit coated brass bearing on a hot axle, all inside the journal box of a rolling truck.