Nostalgia & History > When I Posted this Image on Facebook I Was Asked a Question ...

... a question I could not answer. 

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/attachments/fullsize/1170000/SP_8824_west_of_Bealville_CA_in_September_1982_R05.jpg

"I am curious why the Southern Pacific lettering on the first unit was painted red."  I'm curious now too.  I have seen this in a few of Roger's photos.

Marty Bernard

MartyBernard Wrote:
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> "I am curious why the Southern Pacific lettering
> on the first unit was painted red."  I'm curious
> now too. 

That was pretty common on SP power. Not sure exactly, but maybe the lettering wore off and exposed the primer underneath?

Hi Marty.

From what I remember, red numbers occurred after going through the pressure washer. Why only on some units, I don't know.

Wats local
(RB)

Who would use red primer to be covered by grey paint and whire lettering.  Well, just maybe under the bloody nose paint

Marty
.

CPR_4000 Wrote:
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> MartyBernard Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > "I am curious why the Southern Pacific
> lettering
> > on the first unit was painted red."  I'm
> curious
> > now too. 
>
> That was pretty common on SP power. Not sure
> exactly, but maybe the lettering wore off and
> exposed the primer underneath?

As I remember "red" was the backing for the Scotch-lite lettering. Most of the "red" involved the "Southern" on the long hood where the hoods would get hot from running. The lettering would fail, often when going through a locomotive washer, and the reflective part of the lettering would peel leaving the red backing.

ATSF used a red primer as well...

MartyBernard Wrote:
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> Who would use red primer to be covered by grey
> paint and whire lettering.  Well, just maybe
> under the bloody nose paint
>
> Marty
> .
>
> CPR_4000 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MartyBernard Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > "I am curious why the Southern Pacific
> > lettering
> > > on the first unit was painted red."  I'm
> > curious
> > > now too. 
> >
> > That was pretty common on SP power. Not sure
> > exactly, but maybe the lettering wore off and
> > exposed the primer underneath?

I think Railbaron has it right- some sort of backing to the lettering itself.  It was quite a common sight, actually.
SR

And we can't forget about the SP units that lost whole patches of gray paint exposing the tan primer underneath.  

The occurrence of red lettering was common on SP's SW1500, SD39/40/45, and others which received 3M-brand reflective "Scotchlite" letters and numbers. I did some research on this - in part by sanding down layers of paint on former SP units and collecting photos.

The first paint to hit the outside of these units when new (over a dark yellow primer) was the Scarlet - the nose area/ "wings" and the long hood end/back of switcher cab, frame sides if applicable, plus the area where the lettering would be applied.  These areas were then masked off to cover the Scarlet exactly where it was to remain, and the adhesive-backed Scotchlite lettering/numbers applied to their respective locations.  Each Scotchlite character had its own peel-off mask temporarily covering the white reflective outside layer.

At this point, the Gray was sprayed over the remainder of the unit.  The masking over the Scarlet ends, ect. was removed, and the masking layer over each letter and number was removed.  Standard painting procedure for a job like this - the trim color (covering less area) painted first, then masked, then the main/larger area color.

The Scotchlite stick-on letters and numbers did not weather well - especially over areas of high heat near engines/exhaust/dynamic brake resistors.  The material they were made of cracked into hundreds of tiny pieces, the adhesive let go, and seeing the Scarlet base coat underneath was the result.

Many have assumed that the red seen was primer, but it was SP Scarlet (Clearly the same color as the hood ends, etc. in photos, by the way.)

Mark

MartyBernard Wrote:
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> Who would use red primer to be covered by grey
> paint and whire lettering.

Red primer, white paint where lettering goes, stick-on lettering stencil gets painted over with gray body color, stick-on lettering gets peeled off so white remains. White paint wears off, reveals primer underneath. I don't know if that's actually how they lettered the units.

It was a primer.


V

SLOOCNDR

>Red primer, white paint where lettering goes, stick-on lettering stencil gets painted over with gray body color, stick-on lettering gets peeled off so white remains. White paint wears off, reveals primer underneath. I don't know if that's actually how they lettered the units.

Yes: spray primer->spray letter color (which is actually a light gray rather than pure white) and scarlet for wings etc.->apply stick-on letter and number stencils and mask for wings->spray (gray) body color->peel of letters to reveal lettering and masking to reveal wings. With alky enamels the process takes one day per color, with laquers, about 1 hour per color (and the same with some of the more moderns paints). Scotchlite letters and numbers were usually applied on top of the gray body color. Can't account for the red letters unless the scaret was painted where they go first.

The phenomona was common to the SLSW engines as well, I thought for the longest time that the SW-1500's were intentionally painted that way until a employee in Tyler TX explained the pressure wash effect to me.  

All believable explanations.   However, I have never once seen a photo of an SP unit in all-red primer.   If that was indeed the case, it wasn't on SP-repainted units.   Just factory units.

Fizzboy7 Wrote:
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> If that was indeed the case, it wasn't
> on SP-repainted units.   Just factory units.

Not even then...  I don't have any knowledge of the primer color on factory-painted GEs, Alcos, etc., but EMD (The ones with "red lettering") used a slightly darkish yellow primer they called "buff" color (It can sometimes be seen in photos of SP equipment on an unpainted replacement battery box cover, or other replacement part, looking like something that was swapped out from a UP unit - though not exactly that color of yellow.)  Factory original SP/red lettering paint jobs I've done "sandpaper research" on show the yellow primer first, then Scarlet undercoat, masking - including application of Scotchlite letters/numbers, then Gray top coat.

Mark