Nostalgia & History > mundo: White Mountain Scenic Railroad, McNary, AZ

A recent thread brought up the White Mountain Scenic Railroad that once ran out of McNary, AZ on rails of the Southwest Forest Industries and the Apache Railway.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4274569

It has been the subject of several other threads over the years as well:

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,4114660
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4008368
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,3770941
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,2715819
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,1422502

The following information was gleened from those threads, the Trains 1940-2010 Complete Collection DVD, and Ed Von Nordeck, TO user mundo, who provided the photos and literature seen below. The railroad was the dream of Reed Hatch, who in 1962 purchased three 2-8-2’s to run on it: Sierra Ry. 2-8-2’s #34 and 36 and Santa Maria Valley 2-8-2 #100. Sierra 34 cracked a cylinder head during a February 22, 1962 demonstration for Mr. Hatch, but he still bought both the 34 and 36. By the fall of 1962, SMV 100 had been moved to Taylor, AZ on the Apache Ry. south of Snowflake, but Sierra 36 didn’t leave Jamestown until June 15, 1965. The engine was ferried to Arizona on its own wheels, and pulled its first train on the White Mountain Scenic Railroad on June 26, 1965. I haven’t been able to pin down just when SMV 100 first pulled its first train - most online references say the WMSR began operations in 1964. The passenger equipment consisted of five ex-MKT coaches built in 1923.

The original route of the excursion used SWFI rails running east of McNary to a spot 22 miles away called Apache Springs. A wye led to a short spur with a turning loop at the foot of Big Cienega Mountain. A short item on p.80 of the Oct. 1965 issue of Trains announced that WMSR was running daily except Wednesday, departing McNary at 9:00 am, running 22 miles to Apache Springs and Big Cienega Mountain, pausing for a 1.5 hour lunch stop, and returning to McNary by 3pm. The fare was $5.95 for adults and $4.95 for children. The WSMR ran ads in the “Running Extra” section of Trains beginning in the September 1966 issue. The classified-style ads claimed “daily except Sunday” service, the fact that the railroad climbed from 7200 to 9300 feet in 22 miles, and that the fare was now $6.95 adults, $4.95 children. These ads ran until the May 1968 issue, after which all mention of the White Mountain Scenic Railroad vanished from the pages of Trains except for a brief mention in a Ted Benson article about the revival of Sierra steam in the June 1973 issue.

The PDF of a WMSR brochure can be downloaded from the Northern Arizona Univerity collection here:

http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/101967

The accompanying letter at the end indicates that the brochure is no newer than 1968, but note the lower fares of $5.95 for adults and $3.95 for children.

The brochures below are from Ed’s collection. The first and presumably earliest doesn’t mention prices but includes a rough map of the railroad’s route. The second, full-color brochure presumably post-dates the one above, but still advertises the route to Big Cienega Mountain.

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The back page of the full-color brochure, and then a flyer from the tour company run by Ed and Mary Lee Von Nordeck, Let’s Travel Tours, advertising one of their rail trips from LA to Arizona to ride the WMSR and visit the Grand Canyon. It was on these trips that Ed took the photos that follow.

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1, 2. The earliest slides in Ed’s collection have June 1966 processing date stamps, and show a runby with engine 36:

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3, 4, 5. The following year, 36 again provides the power in another runby sequence:

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6, 7, 8. July of 1969 featured a double header with both the 36 and the 100.

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9. Still on the July 1969 trip, the engines perform a photo runby.
10. The train posed on the turning loop at the foot of Big Cienega Mountain
11. The engineer oiling around. This is probably Reed Hatch himself, though I would appreciate confirmation.

The grade of the wye and loop are still visible from the air: https://goo.gl/maps/yxsC8VyPseR2

The view from Arizona Highway 260 shows Big Cienega Mountain in the distance with the grade in the foreground: https://goo.gl/maps/mkwv25FQ33y

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12. Another pose on the turning loop
13. The train heads back to McNary.
14. Along the way, a pause to view some extensive beaver dams on a stream paralleling the tracks. As near as I can tell, the dams were located in this area along Soldier Creek: https://goo.gl/maps/RX2aDaSyQMM2

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15, 16. Another visit in June 1970 had people riding in all kinds of places, including the tender.
17. A hi-rail sedan following the train. That looks like a Buick emblem on the hood, but I can’t figure the model and year. Anyone?

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18, 19, 20. More poses on the Big Cienega Mountain balloon loop, including a look at a motorcar that presumably preceded the train down the line. An article in the March 1972 issue of Railroad Modeler mentioned that such a car typically followed the train to spot fires.

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An item about the White Mountain Scenic from The Sun (Flagstaff) newspaper’s “Northland Sundial” section from May 22, 1970. Lunch is now $1.25 up from $1 in the mid-60’s, but adult fare is still $5.95 and kids for $3.95:

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20. The newspaper article mentions the addition of a club and observation car. That is presumably car 643 shown in the photo below in 1969.
21. This appears to be the same car again in 1974, now dolled up in purple as “The Jersey Lily.” I haven’t been able to dig up much history on this car before the 1970’s, though it’s been suggested that it was a conversion of one of the MKT coaches with an open platform. Other than that it starred opposite Paul Newman in the 1972 film “The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean,” and subsequently served on the Yuma Valley Railway and is now in the possession of the new Virginia & Truckee. Anyone know anything more about this car?

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By 1972, dispute with the White Mountain Apache tribe over the WMSR’s continued passenger operation east out of McNary had caused a shift to a less scenic stretch along the Apache Railway from Pinetop Lakes to Bell siding, where the engine ran around the train for the return trip. The flyer below dates from this time period. A 1974 travelogue by William Gardei and a scan of his souvenier ticket can be found here:

http://www.islandpondrailroad.com/wmsrr/wmsrr.htm
http://www.islandpondrailroad.com/wmsrr.jpg

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22. Our final look at the White Mountain Scenic Railway comes from Ed’s 1974 visit. This view shows the “1880-style depot” (???) at Pinetop Lake.
23. The ex-MKT coaches, still in orange. The recent thread about the White Mountain included a view nearer the end of operations in 1976 when the cars had been painted red white and blue.
24. The 36 now sports a silvered smokebox and the bell hung below the headlight. Photos in those old threads show that the 100 got a similar treatment.

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25, 26. Views from onboard as the engine pulls the train tender-first.
27. Running around the train at Bell just north of where the Apache Ry crossed US-60. The site of Bell today looks like this: https://goo.gl/maps/tvmiYB3KzVT2

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28, 29, 30. Photo runbys on the return trip:

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In the summer of 1976, the White Mountain Scenic Railroad closed down due to ongoing issues with the tribal authorities. Reed Hatch loaned the 36 and the 100 to the Wasatch Mountain Railroad’s “Heber Creeper” in Utah, where they ran until the fall of 1983. According to Don Strack’s site, Fred Kepner acquired the engines in 1987. He stored them at Ogden beside the SP shops from 1989-99, then moved them to Oregon, where they currently sit among other pieces of his collection along the BNSF Gateway Sub at Merrill, OR:

http://utahrails.net/utahrails/heber-equipment.php
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,2694729
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,3138865,3138869#3138869

The cars scattered. “The Jersey Lily,” as mentioned above, is reportedly on display in Virginia City, NV along the new V&T:

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3874347

Two of the coaches are on the Sacramento Southern excursion railway operated by the California State Railroad Museum. The cars are painted two-tone gray, but are lettered MKT 642 and MKT 644.

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2962059

A fourth car reputed to be from the WMSR is on display at Colfax, CA as “SP 1865.”

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3413222

As for the line the WMSR ran over, it existed to feed logs and pull wood products from the sawmill at McNary. A 1979 fire closed the mill for good, and the tracks south of Snowflake, AZ were abandoned in 1982. Today the grade is still plainly visible in aerial views. There is a building at Pinetop Lake that has architecture similar to the WMSR’s final depot, but it’s not in the right place and I’m not convinced it’s the same structure. However, the “Roundhouse Restaurant” building illustrated in that last brochure fairly clearly does still stand nearby:

https://goo.gl/maps/z5mRmWmRDbN2

31. Finally, for the denim vest crowd, a WMSR patch from Ed’s collection. Thanks Ed for sharing these views and other items with us.

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Wow! One terrific post.......I'm going to go over it several times to properly digest it, but thanks for taking the effort to share all this info on what was once a nice operation. I also just saw the 8MM film clip from one of the attachments of previous T/O posts, and those of us here in the east especially New Jersey, can relate to this operation with experiences with the defunct Morris County Central......Another operation that many wish was still in existence.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/17 08:07 by rev66vette.

Great stuff Evan!

Regards, Jim Evans

Evan what was the tribes issue with WMSR? Did they just not want the railroad there,or did it have something to do with the steam engines or excursions?

I am posting in the blind, as I can not see/load the 17 remarks. My computer or TO issues ???

Yes, Evan that is Reed servicing the locomotive.

On July 29, 1992, I along with the late Bill Farmer and John Arbuckle visited the Heber UT operation after shooting the 3985 trips from Salt Lake the previous days.

To my surprise, found Reed Hatch as an engineer on the 36, again enjoying his "36". He was showing his age and advised that this would be his last visit to the Heber. For me it was also a sad day, after first meeting him in 1965 and his cooperation of tours into 1974. White Mt tours were always very popular and most were on the 4th of July weekend, when he would double head for us, steam crews being available. He also insisted on doing a run-by for us, which was not always a regular feature.

Santa Fe would provide five sleepers and a dome lounge car operating to/from Winslow on trains 23-24 the Grand Canyon. Cars set out for our return.
Nava Hopi Charter Bus from Flagstaff would provide three highway cruisers. Drivers would come along and at times, ride the tender. Bill Davis, owner of NAVA-HOPI never new this!. But in the final years of the company, one of the drivers would become owner of the operation.

Want to give our extreme THANKS to Evan for preparing and posting this series, along with my past posts. More are in the works for your enjoyment.

If only medical condition would allow additional sorting through many hundreds of slide since 1949, sure we could come up with many more surprises.

Ed and Mary Lee