Nostalgia & History > SP: Not so unlikely power for the plug.

This would be "just another 3/4 roster shot" were it not for the numbers in the train indicator. In 1964, PA's still occasionally mated with E's on the Coast trains, though such consists were increasingly rare. Here we see one all ready to back down to its train at San Jose roundhouse. But this isn't the power for the Daylight, but rather Commute train 151, the San Jose - San Francisco evening reverse-commute train that later became the standard assignment for ex-Cotton Belt FP7 #6462. Beginning in steam days, train 151 commonly served as a break-in run for locomotives following repairs and for trouble-shooting purposes, including GS-4's in full Daylight regalia.

Both PA2 #6041 (some fans would call it a PA3, but I buy into the claim that it was a late PA2) and trailing E7B 5916, were standard City of San Francisco power at one time or another. The PA2's were well-known for spending their last years on COSF, and I *believe* #6041 was in the last PA consist on the train in mid-1967. The 5916 began its career in 1946 on the City, as a unit jointly owned with UP. Technically, it was SP's oldest E7, because Queen Mary #6017 - built in 1937 as a jointly owned E2 - was not rebuilt to E7 specs until several years after #5916 was constructed. The B-unit spent its final few months running on the Daylight after the Golden State was discontinued in 1968.

History aside, 151 must have lived up to its reputation as an "honorary steam locomotive" that evening: A typically impatient Commute engineer notching out way too fast for the turbo to keep up stood to do no good for local air quality. But, with two units and a probable three cars, the show would not have lasted very long, as the engineer soon-enough would have started creeping out of stations to avoid running ahead of schedule. Perhaps the two units went out on the Lark that evening. At any rate, an otherwise boring shot can nonetheless imply some interesting circumstance.

EO
I'd pay a king's ransom for a photo of #6017 on train 151.


SP San Jose roundhouse, 5-8-1964



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/17 08:36 by hogheaded.

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Could have been a power move (no lite engine) to get the engine to 7th St for 76 or 98.


Nudge

The Coast Mail connected with Train 151 and its power went through to SF. Sometimes it was PA, Es or Fs

Was there a brief time before mail trains trains 90 and 91 were discontinued that they were numbered in the commute pool series?
My faint recollection is that for this interval they carried the same number from San Francisco to Los Angeles.
Before that 90 and 91 were San Jose-Los Angeles (or maybe Oakland-Los Angeles?)
During this time I was quite busy with school and work and only occasionally saw the mail train.

One can always argue Air Quality vs Mosquito Abatement. 
For a time I drove a '67 3 Cylinder 2-Stroke SAAB 95 and had this debait often...    I defended driving the Stroker SAAB as providing public service, of a sort.
SR

(PR wise, I didn't fair much better than Jerry Brown did)

Did #91 keep time well enough and arrive in San Jose to provide a reliable departure for #151?  
I'd always had the impression 90-91's schedule was sort of a "serving suggestion", as the work they'd encounter along the line might vary so much (holidays, etc).   I don't have any real first hand observation of this, I only ever saw the Coast Mail as a kid and sure never carried a watch!  But I've always assumed the train was easily subject to delay.
SR

WAF Wrote:
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> The Coast Mail connected with Train 151 and its
> power went through to SF. Sometimes it was PA, Es
> or Fs

Maybe this was a random thing depending upon power requirements, or ? I photographed the Coast Mail a couple of months earlier in San Jose, and its power went through to Oakland.

EO



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/17 10:12 by hogheaded.

Looks a bit like Barbara Streisand.

I thought this thread was going to be about StarshipConductor...

hogheaded Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WAF Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Coast Mail connected with Train 151 and its
> > power went through to SF. Sometimes it was PA,
> Es
> > or Fs
>
> Maybe this was a random thing depending upon power
> requirements, or ? I photographed the Coast Mail a
> couple of months earlier in San Jose, and its
> power went through to Oakland.
>
> EO

I would agree with you on that. I have seen pictures of 151/154 with a TM on the SJ-SF portion of the run with a RPO

#90 & 91 showed up when they got there. Even though it was a first class train, the dispatchers often gave it a "Run Late" so frt crews were not froged to bad.So many flag stops & local pick ups & set outs of express cars, Gilroy, Wat Jct, Salinas, Paso Robles, SLO, Guadalupe, Surf, Santa Barbara as an example. It was just a guess that the PA would go to the City for 76 & 98. The 91 crew would usually bust up in SJ & DH into the City or work in if they had some express cars and the time to work. An Oakland crew would take Oakland cars to the east bay.


Nudge

Great photo of my all-time favorite locomotive model! Thanks for sharing!

ShastaDaylight

Supposedly that 16 cylinder 244 engine failed because the lube oil got thinned with fuel and eventually the crankshaft would let go. I wonder if the guys had just taken their time advancing the throttle and let the turbo catch up - no smoke, no extra fuel, no dilution - then the 244 engine might have lasted longer? FWIW, I've heard the SP hogs didn't like these mules but I never asked Low Water, Dave Donahue or other engineers I worked with. That said, Santa Fe rails loved the 52 class (not the 51 - that was Christine, the gutless wonder EMD conversion) because they would take virtually any length of train, including nos. 7 and 8 (Fast Mail) up to the century mark in short order. Good riding quality too.

Don't recall how long 151 was the
mail train's number south of San Jose.
Was it 151 all the way from LA?

spnudge wrote:

>So many flag stops & local pick ups & set outs of express cars, Gilroy, Wat Jct, Salinas, Paso Robles, SLO, Guadalupe, Surf, Santa Barbara ...

I liked how the Coast Mail stopped at a grade crossing at Pismo to receive and discharge local mail. There was no siding at Pismo, just a station sign.

The whole mail train issue has me confused, so I consulted Shine & Ryan's "Night Trains of the Coast Route". Page 160:

"Until May 1, 1960, head end traffic from #90-91 destined for Oakland was handled on train #74, the Oakland Lark, and train #255, the Daylight's Oakland connection train. After these trains were terminated, #90-91 operated between Oakland and San Jose on the Western Division with the San Francisco cars handled on commute trains north of San Jose. Between San Jose and Los Angeles the Coast Mail remained as numbers 90-91 until 1963. In 1963, and until the Coast Mail was terminated on May 19, 1965, it ran between Oakland and San Jose as #90-91, and south of San Jose as #151-154. The power and crew from the Coast Mail operated commute trains #151-154 north of San Jose, after swapping the mail train for the commute train at San Jose. This enabled the Coast Division Crew to operate through San Jose to San Francisco or San Luis Obispo with no change.

A new crew operated the mail train with fresh power on the Western Division between San Jose and Oakland."

The last sentence doesn't jive with the photo that I took of #91 in San Jose on, near as I can tell, January 12, 1964. The power ran through to Oakland that day. From what S&R say about power assignments, my statement about #151 being the "break-in train" was generally not the case from 1960-65. Consequently, the power in the above photo was almost certainly off of #91.

EO

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My old TTs show #90 & #91 still a first Class train and listed as "Mail", on October 27, 1963. In April of 1958 the only name trains I have come across is 98-99, 76-75, and 78 & 77, the Del Monte. (The Del Monte was later changed to #126 & 141) But #90 & 91 show as a passenger.

I have never seen reference of # 151 or #150 below San Jose. I will look some more when I have time.


Nudge

spnudge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My old TTs show #90 & #91 still a first Class
> train and listed as "Mail", on October 27, 1963.
> In April of 1958 the only name trains I have come
> across is 98-99, 76-75, and 78 & 77, the Del
> Monte. (The Del Monte was later changed to #126 &
> 141) But #90 & 91 show as a passenger.
>
> I have never seen reference of # 151 or #150 below
> San Jose. I will look some more when I have
> time.
>
>
> Nudge

Look at 1964

In May 1964 train 151 was due into
San Jose at 1:35 PM PST-- train 91 left
for Oakland at 2:05 and 151 continued
to SF at 4:10.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/17 10:11 by timz.

WAF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> spnudge Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My old TTs show #90 & #91 still a first Class
> > train and listed as "Mail", on October 27,
> 1963.
> > In April of 1958 the only name trains I have
> come
> > across is 98-99, 76-75, and 78 & 77, the Del
> > Monte. (The Del Monte was later changed to #126
> &
> > 141) But #90 & 91 show as a passenger.
> >
> > I have never seen reference of # 151 or #150
> below
> > San Jose. I will look some more when I have
> > time.
> >
> >
> > Nudge
>
> Look at 1964


I'm not sure that the 1-6-64 TT below is going to support the veracity of my previous Ryan and Shine quote. For the sake of honesty, I must confess that discovered the TT accompanying a paraphrase of my previous Shine & Ryan quote in a forgotten-till-now 14 year old web page... of mine. I can only assess that I should henceforth limit myself to creating captions like "here is a nice picture" when I'm not otherwise occupied watching reruns of Mr. Ed.

Some of those schedule times between stations seem tight - SR, your comments about Sad Sam's perpetual tardiness certainly seem to ingrained in the timetable.

EO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/17 05:28 by hogheaded.

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