Nostalgia & History > Is this Victorville??

No idea where I got this photo from my collection. I know they had trouble with these units...I guess that is why it's set out.

Adam

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I have the very same photo, I took mine in Jan 1974

Yes, that is Victorville, CA. The front wall details match the depot photo in the following thread (and the Victorville depot's details were fairly distinctive for such a plain structure):

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2966319

That SDP40F looks brand new!

Amtrak SDP40F 519 was built in June 1973.

Why wouldn't you think that's the desert town of Victorville?

Out

I've driven through the area a long time ago but not in winter. I didn't know they got snow there. I guess that's true for parts of AZ too. Desert but gets snow in winter.

SPDRGWfan Wrote:
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> I've driven through the area a long time ago but
> not in winter. I didn't know they got snow there.
> I guess that's true for parts of AZ too. Desert
> but gets snow in winter.

Occasional they do. Our son lives there.

New Years Day 1974 they only had 18 inches of snow in 12 hours. Yep, the desert does get snow. I lived there 14 years and never had a year without it. But that day in 1974 was the worst storm of all.

miralomarail's posting of the photo from 2011:

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2634250,2634250

Mr-Beechcroft Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No idea where I got this photo from my collection.
> I know they had trouble with these units...I guess
> that is why it's set out.
>
> Adam


BN may have had trouble with them, but the Santa Fe didn't.

The AT&SF restricted the ATK 500's to 50 MPH on curves of a certain degree, which escapes me at present, or greater. It had to do with potential derailments account of the water tanks for the steam generator being mounted above the frame level creating a high C of G.

Chico43 Wrote:

> The AT&SF restricted the ATK 500's to 50 MPH on
> curves of a certain degree, which escapes me at
> present, or greater. It had to do with potential
> derailments account of the water tanks for the
> steam generator being mounted above the frame
> level creating a high C of G.

That's the first I've heard of such a restriction on Santa Fe. After the derailment problems came to light, Amtrak began restricting the units to 40 mph on curves of 2 degrees or more on railroads with Class 4 track, but that didn't apply to Santa Fe and its Class 5 track. Santa Fe's FP45's had above-the-frame water tanks to supplement the underbody tank, and I've never heard that they were restricted on curves, either.

UP's track didn't have a problem either. The baggage car interaction also contributed perhaps.

Chico43 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The AT&SF restricted the ATK 500's to 50 MPH on
> curves of a certain degree, which escapes me at
> present, or greater. It had to do with potential
> derailments account of the water tanks for the
> steam generator being mounted above the frame
> level creating a high C of G.

ATSF did not restrict the units.  John Reed himself said they would not follow the Amtrak directive.

NYSWSD70M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chico43 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The AT&SF restricted the ATK 500's to 50 MPH on
> > curves of a certain degree, which escapes me at
> > present, or greater. It had to do with
> potential
> > derailments account of the water tanks for the
> > steam generator being mounted above the frame
> > level creating a high C of G.
>
> ATSF did not restrict the units.  John Reed
> himself said they would not follow the Amtrak
> directive.


Well hell if we'd have known that I guess we could have ignored the daily Form U train orders and later special instructions in the ETT. Reference attachment is AT&SF Los Angeles Division ETT #9, Oct 2, 1979 Special Instructions Pg.14.
I rest my case.

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Evan_Werkema Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chico43 Wrote:
>
> > The AT&SF restricted the ATK 500's to 50 MPH on
> > curves of a certain degree, which escapes me at
> > present, or greater. It had to do with
> potential
> > derailments account of the water tanks for the
> > steam generator being mounted above the frame
> > level creating a high C of G.
>
> That's the first I've heard of such a restriction
> on Santa Fe. After the derailment problems came
> to light, Amtrak began restricting the units to 40
> mph on curves of 2 degrees or more on railroads
> with Class 4 track, but that didn't apply to Santa
> Fe and its Class 5 track. Santa Fe's FP45's had
> above-the-frame water tanks to supplement the
> underbody tank, and I've never heard that they
> were restricted on curves, either.

The BN was the railroad that "restricted" the Amtrak SDP40F units, in-spite of the fact that they did NOT "restrict" their own fleet of SD40-2 freight units equipped with the same damned HT-C truck! It didn't take long for the BN to quietly lift their "restriction".

Chico43 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NYSWSD70M Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Chico43 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The AT&SF restricted the ATK 500's to 50 MPH
> on
> > > curves of a certain degree, which escapes me
> at
> > > present, or greater. It had to do with
> > potential
> > > derailments account of the water tanks for
> the
> > > steam generator being mounted above the frame
> > > level creating a high C of G.
> >
> > ATSF did not restrict the units.  John Reed
> > himself said they would not follow the Amtrak
> > directive.
>
>
> Well hell if we'd have known that I guess we could
> have ignored the daily Form U train orders and
> later special instructions in the ETT. Reference
> attachment is AT&SF Los Angeles Division ETT #9,
> Oct 2, 1979 Special Instructions Pg.14.
> I rest my case.

That is for four specific areas and is for 50 MPH.  I have no idea as to the degree of curvature.

The "general" Amtrak restriction placed on the locomotives was 40 mph for a curve of 2 degrees or more.  What you you do not supply is what the speed was for these curves both freight and passenger.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/17 12:20 by NYSWSD70M.

> AT&SF restricted the ATK 500's to 50 MPH
> on curves of a certain degree

It was an Amtrak restriction, starting about
January 1977 on SFe. SFe made a point of
saying it wasn't their idea, but they
complied-- or at least they issued the
necessary instructions. Dunno about
the enforcement.

Do I remember right that (on SFe at least)
the restriction on SDPs was eventually
lifted, before the SDPs were replaced?

I assume SDPs were similarly restricted on
Class 5 SP track, but don't recall an
example offhand. SP restricted HT-C
freight units too, didn't they?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/17 13:50 by timz.

timz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > AT&SF restricted the ATK 500's to 50 MPH
> > on curves of a certain degree
>
> It was an Amtrak restriction, starting about
> January 1977 on SFe. SFe made a point of
> saying it wasn't their idea, but they
> complied-- or at least they issued the
> necessary instructions. Dunno about
> the enforcement.
>
> Do I remember right that (on SFe at least)
> the restriction on SDPs was eventually
> lifted, before the SDPs were replaced?
>
> I assume SDPs were similarly restricted on
> Class 5 SP track, but don't recall an
> example offhand. SP restricted HT-C
> freight units too, didn't they?


From an operating employee's standpoint we could have cared less who's idea it was or why this restriction was placed on those units. Our job was to comply with outstanding instructions and not operate those units in excess of 50 MPH on those prescribed curves.