Nostalgia & History > An oddity on the SP

As was noted on the Southern Pacific Facebook page, an Ebay slide for sale shows a combination Steam and electric led train!

Here is the link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-5-Kodachrome-Original-SP-1740-PE-1625-Location-not-specified-1945-/302536030615?roken=cUgayN



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/17 11:57 by rrpreservation.

Actually I hate to rain on your parade, but these steam-helped electrics were fairly common on the power-short Pacific Electric, especially during World War II. The electric was necessary to operate the crossing signals, but didn't have anywhere near enough power to handle the train, so this was the result.

There is a commercial video out of former 8mm film of a train Westbound on the San Bernardino Line with a 1000 horsepower switcher helping an electric on the point, with a steam engine shoving on the rear.
G

I am corrected. I guess I have never seen it before then.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/17 11:58 by rrpreservation.

PE handled massive tonnage during WWII and they sure weren't going to build new electrics to handle it, so
you ended up with three crews on the same train headed for San Berdoo!

Out

This photo is quite interesting. It appears this eastbound train is stopped, (white flags are limp), at SP's depot at San Dimas while a trainman is either conferring with the DS
or is in the staff machine booth obtaining further authority. The track is SP's Covina branch on which PE operated under a trackage rights agreement until purchasing it outright from SP on September 1, 1946. PE used SP's Covina branch between Lone Hill, one mile west of San Dimas, to Ganesha Jct, 3.76 miles beyond San Dimas where it continued eastward toward San Bernadino on its own trackage and southward into downtown Pomona, again on its own rails. The purchase enabled PE to vacate its original line between Baldwin Park and Lone Hill thus taking the long heavy freight trains off Badillo St. in downtown Covina.

This Frank Peterson photo is the first in color I've seen of steam and electrics on the San Bernadino line.

Charlie



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/17 17:24 by cewherry.

It would appear that the staff machine is inside that enclosure even though it isn't quite visible (note the conduit or cable duct of sorts going into it from the top and what appears to be a fairly common style wooden phone booth box painted aluminum on the side that is visible and mounted on the side of the staff machine enclosuref. Somewhere there is a photo of the staff machine at the other end of the line in I believe a pole mounted wooden box. My real question is about the crewing of the steam engines. Since the PE apparently had little or no steam experience before WWII, what did they do---train engineers and firemen, have the SP loan engineers and firemen or what?

The PE had their own engineers, who had separate qualifications from motormen. They also had districts, at least North, South, and East, so the Engine service employees were identified by two letters. A North engineer would show NE, while a North motorman would show NM, etc.

These designations stayed after the end of the PE's passenger service in 1953, and the end of electric freight service.
Charlie will be able to give us specifics.
G

spladiv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It would appear that the staff machine is inside
> that enclosure even though it isn't quite visible
> (note the conduit or cable duct of sorts going
> into it from the top and what appears to be a
> fairly common style wooden phone booth box painted
> aluminum on the side that is visible and mounted
> on the side of the staff machine enclosuref.
> Somewhere there is a photo of the staff machine at
> the other end of the line in I believe a pole
> mounted wooden box.

On the SP's Covina Branch, which extended from Bassett to Pomona there were two (2) separate Staff systems. The westernmost portion extended from Baldwin Park, Irwindale and the initial switch yard on the Reliance Spur. The easternmost portion started at Lone Hill and extended through San Dimas, La Verne and ended at Ganesha Jct. This from SP Los Angeles Division Timetable #175, June 11, 1939 courtesy Tim Zukas although this source doesn't specifically state there were machines at those locations mentioned.

PE's employee timetable of May 31, 1944 (when PE was still a tenant on SP's branch) specifically listed the locations of SP's machines as "Baldwin Park--adjacent to PE crossing, Irwindale--adjacent to Reliance Spur, Covina (SP)--adjacent to east switch of siding, Lone Hill--adjacent to Junction switch, San Dimas (SP_--At station, La Verne--adjacent to junction switch and Ganesha Junction--adjacent to junction switch. In addition, PE also had a staff system separate and apart from SP's with machines at Monte Vista and Lone Hill, 3.01 miles on PE's original alignment through Covina which was abandoned after the September 1, 1946 purchase of SP's Covina branch. As to the mention of Lone Hill in PE's timetable, I don't know if there were two distinct machines at Lone Hill, one PE and one SP but I doubt there was a duplication.

My real question is about the
> crewing of the steam engines. Since the PE
> apparently had little or no steam experience
> before WWII, what did they do---train engineers
> and firemen, have the SP loan engineers and
> firemen or what?

It is true PE's use of steam engines was somewhat limited prior to their WWII experience. Just the same, steam was around from day one of 'New' PE's existence in 1911.
One example of long time steam use was at the Standard Oil refinery at El Segundo where electrics were not allowed account sparks generated from overhead trolley operation.
Another was the so-called San Fernando "Island". There were others such as on the Harbor Belt Line in Wilmington after its formation in 1929 where there never had been electric overhead.

In this area of labor relations PE was unique in that their collective bargaining agreements had provisions to allow employees to "Break In" on what would be considered a new craft. Lets say you were a Motorman running streetcars or interurban trains in or around Pasadena. If the company identified a need for firemen on steam engines on the San Bernadino line and since both Pasadena and the track to San Bernadino was part of what was called PE's "Northern District" you could apply to "Break In" as a fireman on the 'North'. This entailed making runs under the watchful eye of a fireman in what today is called 'on the job training'. I once had a supply of these 'Break In' forms that my dad used during his PE days. There were about 10 lines where the trainer would place his comments about the competence of the applicant. I don't know what other exams were required. After completing the requisite trips and making a 'date' you then had additional seniority in addition to your Motorman's date. In my dad's case I know that he had Motorman, Conductor, Motor Coach operator, Ticket Clerk and Train Dispatcher seniority; all obtained through the "Break In" method. PE had three operating districts, North, West and South and at one time each district had its own seniority. Just when the three districts merged seniority I'm not certain. To to your question what did they do as far as training yes, PE trained their men but not as formal as it is done today and no they didn't borrow manpower from parent SP.

Charlie

Neat. Never seen a 4 x 5 Kodachrome for sale before, must be more of these around than I thought.