Nostalgia & History > OTD: UP E's and yellow cars ('73)

UP E9A #954 & E9B #973B leading an all yellow post-Amtrak train near Speer, WY on Mar. 31, 1973. This Bruce Black shot was labeled 'special'. Need history help here: what 'special' was it?

Picture taken from I-25 bridge or possibly the safer bridge emabankment (but it was BB who took the shot : >).

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BACK WHEN THEY STILL RAN 80+ ON THE LINE  (max timetable listed speed was 79)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/19 09:03 by dan.

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As a point of fact, certain engineers were known for running in excess of the posted limit of 79 MPH between Speer and Denver, especially if their train was behind schedule.  The "DP" as it was referred to, had neither ACS(Cab Signals) nor ATS(Automatic Train Stop), and thus was limited to 79 based on the 1947 ICC ruling on such matters.  It also had bolted rail for much of it's existance, making for a thrilling ride.  With over 100 road crossings in 106 miles, every trip was possibly your last, as many were unmarked farm or dirt crossings frequented by oblivious occupants and the inevitable collisions.  

all passenger engineers on the UP out of Denver and Chian ran balls out when they could, on The DP,KP, the overland route, it was expected to make up time when late.  The old UP hoggers told me about greatly exceeding the max speed of the published gear ratio, all the time.

Same thing on RI, santa fe, the Q,and suppose the GN, NP east of the rockies.  There were no weed weasels with radar guns, the opposite was true in those days, when railroading was railroading, contrast that with todays 1/2 hour job briefing then trying to get PTC to boot up.


----first two shots John Wegner posted by Lance? on the KP  3rd



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/19 07:21 by dan.

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Maybe the OP's photo is an office car special? That's quite a mixed behind 928 in Dan's first shot! Probably a pair of SDP35's in back?

It is a special, in Valmont pic,   In the secong shot posted by Lance that of train 117 they are sdp's 35's,  1400 series.

There used to be many of these specials, but now things are slower  single speed railroading is firmly entrenched on the UP, moreso with PSR,  newer mba  mgmt  types does not enjoy riding their companies rails, like the previous generations did.

Used to be on the western roads you would see varnish on the rear of hot trains occaisionally, when is the last time that occured, with exceptions of  motive power evaluation/test cars.

pic 1 bruce black



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/19 09:01 by dan.

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Sorry, but I must set the record straight.  Not ALL passenger engineers ran "balls out, all the time" on the Union Pacific.  Just as in freight, some passenger engineers knew no limits, while others were indeed timid and did not push the limits, or even run the speed limit.   Remember, Engineers got to be Passenger Engineers via seniority, not skill level.  Some were superbly skilled, some average, and some just downright terrible.  As a former Train Dispatcher, Engineer (out of Cheyenne over Sherman Hill and Denver), and Road Foreman(MOP) I can tell you from FIRST HAND experience that while it makes for great legend, it just wasn't that way.   

Thankss for some nice yellow passenger  photo's.

RoadForeman Wrote:
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> Sorry, but I must set the record straight.  Not
> ALL passenger engineers ran "balls out, all the
> time" on the Union Pacific.  Just as in freight,
> some passenger engineers knew no limits, while
> others were indeed timid and did not push the
> limits, or even run the speed limit.   Remember,
> Engineers got to be Passenger Engineers via
> seniority, not skill level.  Some were superbly
> skilled, some average, and some just downright
> terrible.  As a former Train Dispatcher, Engineer
> (out of Cheyenne over Sherman Hill and Denver),
> and Road Foreman(MOP) I can tell you from FIRST
> HAND experience that while it makes for great
> legend, it just wasn't that way.   

I didn't mean to imply all the time, if on time they would not be put in that position!  All had different comfort levels and skill sets, experiences as well,   there was no need to push it normally.    With the history of fatal grade crossing collisions  when there was no need to push it, they would not  But in comparison the old speed limit on the DP  was 79 , and daily the SFZ  and city trains did, 79 on the KP for the varnish, 90 on the overland route, so in comparison they did run balls out compared to current speeds, and those high limits were treated more as guidelines for tangents..   The 70 mph current limit chian-east  speaks to what passenger trains used to able to do there. My favorite engineers were, Henry ? and Art Pierson ;  They ran the SFZ den-chian 78-80, since they were on top seniority, that didn't mind the lower pay.   those and others told me preamtrak stories, as well as other recollections by Hol Wagner and other riders, with stop their watches.   When UP got rid of the, super elevation,  center sidings in WYO , it was apparent the party was over.  What years did you work there, fascinating piece of railroad, but UP isn't as gung -ho on hot z trains as they once were, when mgmt would often ride them.  I loved when up had 8 units in their executive pool.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/19 10:40 by dan.

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Here's my shot of 954, looking good at Kansas City in the summer of '74.

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It's posting like this one , with comments made by several of you about how fast the old UP engineers used to run, that make T.O. membership so  enjoyable for me .  --Kelly

In response to your question, my time as a Train Dispatcher was 1976 to 1980 in Cheyenne, way before the Omaha Harriman Center was conceived.  At that time, the UP had Dispatching offices in Pocatello, Salt Lake, Cheyenne, North Platte, and Omaha.  I answered the call to the road in 1980 and went into "engine service" on the Cheyenne to Rawlins run, including the branches out of Laramie to Walden, the Hanna mine runs, and occasionally the Sinclair Local to Saratoga.  As for the engineers who really stood out:  Art Pearson on the DP WOULD run 100mph occasionally, but mostly north of Greeley where there was less population and fewer crossings.  A really great engineer.  That "pool" (Denver to Cheyenne), would bring No. 5 north out of Denver in the morning, and go home on No. 6 in the afternoon, allowing the crew to sleep in their own beds every night, after making two day's pay.  A railroader's dream.   In those days(late-70's), Bob Ames and Julian Rasmussen were two of the regulars on Amtrak between Cheyenne and Rawlins.  My recollection is that Ames, who was nicknamed "The Professor", once took No. 5 from Laramie to Rawlins (pull to a stop based on monitoring radio conversations with the conductor) in 84 minutes(to cover 116 miles).  AVERAGE of just under 84mph.  West of Rawlins, no one was faster or better than Bob Morrison, although that district was known for many very fast and highly skilled enginemen.  Morrison had a seniority date of 1927 and would run 100mph right up to the end.  He once ran off the Rawlins to Green River portion (WITH a stop in Rock Springs) in 1'46"(to cover 134 miles).  Do the math, as they say....West of Green River, no one could really make an exceptional run due to curvature and speed restrictions west of Evanston, but running times were generally right at 3 hours or a fraction more to cover the 175 or so miles from Green River to Ogden.