Nostalgia & History > WAG running extra (#87): MKT psgr in Topeka!

This is one of the rare times Bill Gibson didn’t attach any specific information to his slide. It’s also one of the rare times his son Art is unable to provide any clues for one of his Pop’s shots. What was a Katy “Texas Special” car doing in Topeka, KS? There are no passenger train shots in sequence next to this slide to help clear up the mystery. So we really have no clue as to why this car + the IC car ahead of it were in Topeka on Santa Fe rails. That fact that these 2 cars are on the siding close to 4th Street would suggest they will be attached to a westbound train later in the day. Let the speculation games begin…

1. MKT car 1503, the “David Crockett” sits coupled to an unknown Illinois Central car on the siding in front of the Santa Fe passenger depot in Topeka, KS on April 6, 1963.
Photo by William A. Gibson (WAG) Sr.

Thanks for looking back!
Lance Garrels (santafe199)
Art Gibson (wag216)
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/23 03:14 by santafe199.

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Very nice !
It's great to see any Katy passenger car pictures - even in Topeka.
The David Crockett was built by Pullman-Standard in 1948 as a 14 roomette 4 dbl bedroom car.
Gary

I agree with GCM, any Katy passenger car shot is something to behold!  

santafe199 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What was a Katy “Texas Special” car doing in Topeka, KS?
> There are no passenger train shots in sequence
> next to this slide to help clear up the mystery.
> So we really have no clue as to why this car + the IC car
> ahead of it were in Topeka on Santa Fe rails.
> That fact that these 2 cars are on the siding close to 4th Street
> would suggest they will be attached to a westbound train later in the day.
> Let the speculation games begin...

"Off-road" cars could and would be used in all sorts of "unexpected" places "back in the day" of the general Pullman pool. Not only for extra seasonal/other traffic demand, or for "pinch hitting", but also for other reasons, including but not limited to steam/historical society/fan club excursions, conventions (Shriners, etc.), Boy Scout jamborees, military ("MAIN") moves, tourist/vacation groups, or other various charters.

Going to the "Santa Fe RY Passenger Car Ref. Series Vol. 5 - Sleeping Cars of the Santa Fe", and checking therein "Table 3-21: Foreign Road Sleeping Cars on the Santa Fe", I don't see the David Crockett listed, nor any IC sleepers for the date in question, but that table is non-exhaustive in its scope.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/20 14:13 by Rainier_Rails.

My first thought was about setout Pullmans, but, whatever setout business Topeka had is probably long gone by '63. 
These cars could be on a charter or tour operation.  The thread narrative (thanks for that) rules out any help here.  It coud be that there are more than those two.....maybe a military move.....any nearby Army posts?
I doubt they would be off-line for shopping, the railroads had their own facilities.
Always fun to see these photo mysteries.

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

In 1963, could it be used for Business between ATSF and other Freight Railroads..  I thought at one time the ATSF was interested in gaining the KCS ?????

agentatascadero Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My first thought was about setout Pullmans, but,
> whatever setout business Topeka had is probably
> long gone by '63. 
> These cars could be on a charter or tour
> operation.  The thread narrative (thanks for
> that) rules out any help here.  It coud be that
> there are more than those two.....maybe a military
> move.....any nearby Army posts?
> I doubt they would be off-line for shopping, the
> railroads had their own facilities.
> Always fun to see these photo mysteries.
>
> AA

The set out sleeper on 15 & 16 actually lasted into the Amtrak era, although almost exclusively used by AT&SF officials.

mp51w Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> agentatascadero Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My first thought was about setout Pullmans,
> but,
> > whatever setout business Topeka had is probably
> > long gone by '63. 
> > These cars could be on a charter or tour
> > operation.  The thread narrative (thanks for
> > that) rules out any help here.  It coud be
> that
> > there are more than those two.....maybe a
> military
> > move.....any nearby Army posts?
> > I doubt they would be off-line for shopping,
> the
> > railroads had their own facilities.
> > Always fun to see these photo mysteries.
> >
> > AA
>
> The set out sleeper on 15 & 16 actually lasted
> into the Amtrak era, although almost exclusively
> used by AT&SF officials.

Thanks mp......if the set out sleeper was mostly for ATSF execs, it seems unlikely that off line cars would be utilized for such an important assignment.

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

I got curious about those Topeka set outs, so I broke out some old OGs.  Using the Dec, 1959 issue, I see trains 5 and 6 handling the Topeka sleeper.   Sleeper arrives from Chicago at 0945, and returns at 1940.  Train 5 is an extension of the Kansas City Chief, running from KC to Ft Worth.  Train 6, Ft Worth to KC, connects in KC with the Texas Chief.
In 1969, after the discontinuance of secondary trains, the Topeka sleeper was handled in  both directions by trains 15/16, the Texas Chief.
July, 1942 is the oldest OG at my disposal, and I could find no Topeka set out sleeper in the ATSF listings.  Perhaps this was one of many set outs to be discontinued so as to better serve the war effort.

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

TRain #6 is a moot point. The Topeka to  Chi car was on #20 until the end and then the car was used on  #16..
wag216