Nostalgia & History > Oakland 1971-Alameda Belt Line

December 16 1971-Oakland CA-Alameda Belt Line - Alco S2
(Would appreciate comments on what the Alameda Belt Line was.)

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Here's a view from the 1965 trackmap. ABL is in pink. The green is SP, which had trackage rights over parts of the ABL and also switching rights on the eastern part of the ABL.

Interchanged with the SP on the island. Interchanged with ATSF at the carfloat slip on the island into late 60's. I can't say for sure if the WP floated cars there. Anyone?

In the 70's there was an SP yard job called the Super Chief that handled all the line haul railroads traffic to the Belt. Here's Topper explaining the name:

topper Wrote:
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> > > And now for today's trivia question: What was
> the "Super
> > Chief" (and I don't mean the Santa Fe passenger
> train!)
>
> Back in the Seventies, there was an SP yard job on
> duty weeknights at 11 PM at the Homestead (and I
> assume you know where that was...at the Adeline
> Street end of the yard). It handled cars from the
> SP, WP and ATSF to the Alameda Belt yard, then
> picked up the outbound cars from the Belt. The
> Belt crew would block the cars so that all cars
> destined for the ATSF would be on the head end,
> with SP and WP cars on the rear. The SP job would
> leave the Belt and head back to the Homestead,
> typically having to "make a run for the hill"
> between the Fruitvale drawbridge and Fruitvale
> Tower. Once back at the Homestead a crew member
> would make a cut behind the ATSF's and the job
> would continue through the West Oakland end of the
> yard, out to the mainline through the 16th Street
> interlocking plant, and on to the Santa Fe's 40th
> Street yard in Emeryville. It would leave the
> cars there and pick up whatever cars the Santa
> Fe's Oakland Local had left for the SP, then head
> back to West Oakland and go off duty at the
> Homestead.
>
> Because this job had a set routine, the crews knew
> that the faster they got the work done the sooner
> they could go home. A 6 hour trip was possible on
> a good night. To make this happen, they had to go
> as fast as they could. Run 8 was the preferred
> throttle notch.
>
> Because of the usual (or unusual, depending on
> your point of view) high rate of speed, they would
> blow by other jobs in a literal cloud of dust,
> just like a high-speed passenger train. Somebody
> made the comment that they came through "just like
> the Super Chief". The name stuck, and the job was
> thereafter known as...the Super Chief.

Here's a good thread by AlcoRSD https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3608673

And here is the last run of the ABL captured by Evan Werkema which is sort of an incredible story and also a great little movie in and of itself: https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3229146



 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/21 12:56 by phthithu.

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ABL S2 D-4 should be ex-State Belt RR #20 (Alco serial 70203, built 7/43).  Acquired 1960, scrapped 1975?

msw
spokane

Alameda Belt Line and the Oakland Terminal Railway were both owned 50/50 by WP and Santa Fe and were jointly managed, which explains D-4's presence in Oakland.  The enginehouse for both was over on Alameda until it burned down in 1980, and the two lines frequently traded units back and forth.  The D-4 is parked at OTR's old tie-up spot near where the Key System powerhouse once stood in the shadow of the "McArthur Maze." 

Evan_Werkema Wrote:
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> Alameda Belt Line and the Oakland Terminal Railway
> were both owned 50/50 by WP and Santa Fe and were
> jointly managed, which explains D-4's presence in
> Oakland.  The enginehouse for both was over on
> Alameda until it burned down in 1980, and the two
> lines frequently traded units back and forth. 
> The D-4 is parked at OTR's old tie-up spot near
> where the Key System powerhouse once stood in the
> shadow of the "McArthur Maze." 

Thanks for the location identification Evan. [edited out erroneous info here, see Evan's post below for original post]

CN, Did you take any other photos of the area on December 16th? It's a very interesting area and has been pretty thoroughly redeveloped although the nearby West Oakland area has some superb remnants.

Explaining the trackmap layers in the attached photo: Green is SP, Blue is ATSF, Purple is OTR all in the 1965 era. The orange line is not a trackmap per se more a route map showing the Key System main track location through the area--left towards San Francisco. The Sacremento Northern ran over this portion of the Key to get to the Key's ferry terminal and later the transbay terminal in San Francisco via the Bay Bridge.  

1:https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,5369481
2:https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,5370000
3(i also marked the building with the green siding on the raised portion of its roof with the number 3) could be further south not sure: https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,5371349 



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/21 18:07 by phthithu.

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phthithu Wrote:

> Thanks for the location identification Evan. Well,
> CN, it looks like all three of your Oakland shots
> posted here recently are actually all Emeryville
> shots although you can't be blamed for that as you
> were right on the border of the two cities. It
> could be the case that the one of Judson Steel,
> you might have been standing in Oakland on Beach
> St. while the entire photo captures Emeryville, as
> the border seems to weave right through there.

The Emeryville/Oakland line crosses the SP main about where Park Ave. would have crossed the tracks if it ran that far west, so the shot of the SP SW1500 next to Judson Steel was indeed in Oakland by about a city block.

As for photo 2 of OTR 101, that bit on the very right edge of the frame bothers me.  It looks like a curved overpass, like Adeline St. over by the WP roundhouse.  OTR 101 occasionally turned up there for servicing as well, so it may have just shown up from or been waiting to go back to the OTR.

In the photo above of ABL D-4, I'm pretty sure it's sitting south of the old Key subway about where the southeast corner of the powerhouse would have been, about in line with Hannah St.  Where you have it marked on the west leg of Santa Fe's Hubbard St. wye, the buildings in the background would have been a lot closer.  In either case, D-4 is also sitting in Oakland by about a block.

Evan must be right -- the Oak Term 101 pic
in the earlier thread must be in the WP yard,
looking NE to the Adeline overpass at the
right edge of the pic.

This agreement was scheduled to terminate in 2029 but railroad mergers changed what had been anticipated.
Here's more information than you may want to know concerning the Alameda Belt Line and its relationship to the WP and the SP.

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Ok thx for the correction. I found a somewhat useful layer in Google Earth for city boundaries but confirmed looking at a City of Oakland GIS porrtal showing city limits and traced over it in thick red line here. The two confirmed shots in this area all Oakland, and my apologies to CNStratford! I amended my above post but pls. see Evan's reply to it to see what I had originally posted.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/21 18:21 by phthithu.

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Evan_Werkema Wrote:
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> In the photo above of ABL D-4, I'm pretty sure
> it's sitting south of the old Key subway about
> where the southeast corner of the powerhouse would
> have been, about in line with Hannah St.  Where
> you have it marked on the west leg of Santa Fe's
> Hubbard St. wye, the buildings in the background
> would have been a lot closer.  In either case,
> D-4 is also sitting in Oakland by about a block.

I don't know why I did this without explaining it but the numbers denote where I am guessing the camera was and the arrows are the direction the camera is pointed. Should have mentioned that.    

timz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Evan must be right -- the Oak Term 101 pic
> in the earlier thread must be in the WP yard,
> looking NE to the Adeline overpass at the
> right edge of the pic.

I didn't even know that was a possibility but it does look like a pretty good candidate. Do you think it is on the interchange track? I was going to say, maybe this is the engine heading to or from servicing. But then here's a post by Evan showing the D-4 switching the Las Plumas in [edit: San Francisco, not Oakland] in September of '71 and the other one sitting in the yard with the Flying Scotsman. https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3526654



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/21 19:46 by phthithu.

phthithu Wrote:

> But then here's a post by Evan
> showing the D-4 switching the Las Plumas in
> Oakland in September of '71. https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3526654

In that old thread, D-5 was on the WP in Oakland while D-4 was across the bay switching the ferry slip in San Francisco!  Still don't know why that happened, or what ABL was using on Alameda while its entire roster was off the island working for WP.  OTR had S-2 #102 at the time in addition to DS-4-4-1000 #101, so perhaps one of those was working for ABL on Alameda while the other handled OTR's chores in Oakland.

Evan_Werkema Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> phthithu Wrote:
>
> > But then here's a post by Evan
> > showing the D-4 switching the Las Plumas in
> > Oakland in September of
> '71. https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.
> php?11,3526654
>
> In that old thread, D-5 was on the WP in Oakland
> while D-4 was across the bay switching the ferry
> slip in San Francisco!  Still don't know why that
> happened, or what ABL was using on Alameda while
> its entire roster was off the island working for
> WP.  OTR had S-2 #102 at the time in addition to
> DS-4-4-1000 #101, so perhaps one of those was
> working for ABL on Alameda while the other handled
> OTR's chores in Oakland.

Ah, ok, I was wondering about the respective rosters of ABL and OTR in 1971. Thanks for the info. With respect to each railroad having two engines, did the OTR and ABL use two engines simultaneously like for two jobs or something? Or was it just about having a backup engine?  

phthithu Wrote:

> Ah, ok, I was wondering about the respective
> rosters of ABL and OTR in 1971. Thanks for the
> info. With respect to each railroad having two
> engines, did the OTR and ABL use two engines
> simultaneously like for two jobs or something? Or
> was it just about having a backup engine?  

By the early 1970's, I'm pretty sure both shortlines were only working one job a day.  I think OTR got the 102 with the idea of replacing the 101 and having an all-Alco ABL/OTR roster, but it didn't work out that way for reasons unknown.  OTR 102 was sold to Levin Metals in Richmond, CA in 1974, and D-4 was cut up in Alameda about the same time. 

Westbound, Thanks for posting that interesting document. 

So, that 1953 SP-ABL agreement I'm guessing had to do with the expiration of SP's franchise from Alameda to operate on Lincoln Avenue? 

Why did the ATSF have to have an agreement with the ABL to allow SP to bridge ATSF's cars to the ABL but the WP did not need to have such an agreement? 

Do you happen to know if the WP was floating their cars to the ABL in 1979? Was this WB-SP bridge agreement having to do with the WP looking to abandon its car ferry service? If I recall, that happened in 1979, too. 

One other question, on the map of the Bridge track, there's a short track coming off laballed SP-ABL. I'm guessing this was the Broadway team track. Did ABL spot cars for customers there?  

Yet another question, when and how did the SP get switching rights to the customers on Clement Ave, east of Grand Ave? 

Neat topic, pictures, and maps.  phthithu, in your first map showing all of Alameda Island, whose track is in dark blue - on the west end of the island at the docks where the USS Hornet now sits on display?  Is it US Navy trackage with NAS Alameda also very close by?

Rich



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/21 07:07 by PasadenaSub.

Sorry phthithu, but I don’t have the answers to your questions. These track agreements were written in SP’s corporate HQ for the needs expressed by division operating officers with input from traffic people. There was no history department as such matters have always been left to the kind of folks found here on Trainorders. 
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/21 08:48 by Westbound.

PasadenaSub Wrote:
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> Neat topic, pictures, and maps.  phthithu, in
> your first map showing all of Alameda Island,
> whose track is in dark blue - on the west end of
> the island at the docks where the USS Hornet now
> sits on display?  Is it US Navy trackage with NAS
> Alameda also very close by?
>
> Rich

Pasadena, That's right, NAS Alameda, served I believe by both SP and ABL. Second attached picture I extended the trackmap vertically so the tracks are represented as sort of fences and turned on the 3D buildings to show the Hornet. I missed a crossover on one of those piers. 

Here's a download link for the trackmaps collection Oakland to Richmond 1965:
https://drive.google.com/uc?id=11xdeQRdHQwl_1fIRfyyhMW3CeegJbYNI&export=download

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Westbound Wrote:
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> Sorry phthithu, but I don’t have the answers to
> your questions. These track agreements were
> written in SP’s corporate HQ for the needs
> expressed by division operating officers with
> input from traffic people. There was no history
> department as such matters have always been left
> to the kind of folks found here on Trainorders. 
>  

Ha. Yeah, the archivist position outsourced to TO. Thanks for doing your part sharing your memories and documents like the above.

We need to find out how the ABL, ATSF, and WP arranged things so the WP had use of the OTR and ABL engines in 1971 and perhaps other years.  

phthithu, thank you for your excellent track maps! Are you continuing to update them like adding the missing crossover you mentioned?
Would you consider mapping all the tracks of the Key System and IER?
Have you considered doing more track maps - like Los Angeles for example?

Thanks