Nostalgia & History > ATSF Diesel Deadline

This line-up of former ATSF locomotives was in the old SP yard in Sacramento where various equipment was in storage for eventual display at the nearby California State Railroad Museum. Not sure what the nearest locomotive (#543) is. Perhaps a "baby" Trainmaster? Photographed in June, 1992. Were any of these put back in service?

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ATSF 543 is an ultrarare H12-44TS - one of 3 built. They were shorthood/steam generator equipped H12-44's for switching Dearborn Station in Chicago. It is truly unfortunate that CSRM got these units as they now suffer from severe neglect.
Larry

It does not matter if the preserved units have not been returned to pristine condition. That's what the future is for. We all should be appreciative that the units have been preserved because once something has been reduced to pieces of scrap it's gone forever. Doyle McCormack proves that no matter how derelict it is, it can be saved. JCB

If it aint SP CSRM lets it decay. all of these locos were in far better condition when ATSF stored them at Albuquere. They were kept indoors in the roundhouse. At CSRM they sit outside in the elements.
Larry

Larry576 Wrote:
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> If it aint SP CSRM lets it decay. all of these
> locos were in far better condition when ATSF
> stored them at Albuquere. They were kept indoors
> in the roundhouse. At CSRM they sit outside in the
> elements.
> Larry

Yep, and they all are really ratty looking. Windows smashed, railfan collectors that went hunting for there own private collections, homeless people smashing the electrial cabnets and getting into the generators for the copper thats in them, etc, etc. The CSRM really took care of them. As an emaple, the SP SD45T-2 that the UP donated sits in the shop under cover, while all the rest look like scrap fodder. Really sad that they where all wasted. Makes one wish the BNSF would take the collection back.

BNSF doesn't want the engines back or they wouldn't give them away.

They didn't need to be returned to pristine condition when they were donated. Donating all this equipment to this museum was one big mistake. They were not ready to store all this equipment properly.



MRSLIDES Wrote:
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> It does not matter if the preserved units have not
> been returned to pristine condition. That's what
> the future is for. We all should be appreciative
> that the units have been preserved because once
> something has been reduced to pieces of scrap it's
> gone forever. Doyle McCormack proves that no
> matter how derelict it is, it can be saved. JCB

alco636 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They didn't need to be returned to pristine
> condition when they were donated. Donating all
> this equipment to this museum was one big mistake.
> They were not ready to store all this equipment
> properly.
>
>

My point was not to discuss the politics or policy of CSRM but to make the point that they have been saved and that is the most important factor. As an example, the sharks that are languishing away in Michigan. Right now it is a damn shame that nothing has been done to those units-but at least they exist. Some day they could be restored to D&H or NYC. Look at the trouble Dooyle McCormack had to go thru to get A-1-A trucks that were close to the original PAs. I would rather have seen the two ALCO RS3s that were recently scrapped in Canton, OH sitting at CSRM than sitting as scrap metal in a gondola. What woud you say about the Ilinois Railway Museum at Union. Should they be chastised because many of their locomotives are not restored? It all comes down to money. It probably was not a prudent decision to donate the entire ATSF collection to Sacramento but they did. JCB.

what is going on there? NM is flush with money have the state build a museum there.

MRSLIDES Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> alco636 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They didn't need to be returned to pristine
> > condition when they were donated. Donating
> all
> > this equipment to this museum was one big
> mistake.
> > They were not ready to store all this
> equipment
> > properly.
> >
> >
>
> My point was not to discuss the politics or
> policy of CSRM but to make the point that they
> have been saved and that is the most important
> factor. As an example, the sharks that are
> languishing away in Michigan. Right now it is a
> damn shame that nothing has been done to those
> units-but at least they exist.

What CSRM has done with the donated AT&SF equipment is an absolute crime! Shame on them for allowing this rare equipment to to just sit out in the open.

The siituation with the Baldwin Sharks is completely different. The Sharks are private property and the owner can do anything he wants with them. CSRM on the other hand is a Public Trust. The duty of CSRM to responsibly preserve equipment donated to them is not a matter of politics or policy. I think that legal action should be taken against CRSM for their extreme negligence in trashing the donated AT&SF equipment. Bob

One only needs peek at the Pentrex Video of the AT&SF collection on the move to see how far this equipment has deteriorated since its arrival in California.

Look, I truly do understand that it is all about funding when it comes to restoration. Hell, If I had the $$$ by gawd I'd have a BCR M630 sitting somewhere in two tone green. I also understand that just having the pieces still available for eventual restoration is a good good thing.

On the other hand, I have seen the collection. The 4-8-4 and the 2-10-4 have become rust-buckets. Others have commented on the condition of the diesels.

In hindsight, it seems simple to me, CSRM should have turned down the offer of the equipment. That, or AT&SF should have included a clause that the equipment at least be stored properly. I mean, how much could tarps or even rudimentary shelters have cost?

Brian E

m420 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > One only needs peek at the Pentrex Video of the
> AT&SF collection on the move to see how far
> this equipment has deteriorated since its arrival
> in California.
>
> Look, I truly do understand that it is all about
> funding when it comes to restoration. Hell, If I
> had the $$$ by gawd I'd have a BCR M630 sitting
> somewhere in two tone green. I also understand
> that just having the pieces still available for
> eventual restoration is a good good thing.
>
> On the other hand, I have seen the collection. The
> 4-8-4 and the 2-10-4 have become rust-buckets.
> Others have commented on the condition of the
> diesels.
>
> In hindsight, it seems simple to me, CSRM should
> have turned down the offer of the equipment. That,
> or AT&SF should have included a clause that
> the equipment at least be stored properly. I mean,
> how much could tarps or even rudimentary shelters
> have cost?
>
> Brian E
>
>
That is the point several people have tried to make on this post. When this equipment was donated ALL of it was in operable condition, even the steamers were stored serviceable. CSRM has ALLOWED it to deteriorate to the point it would all some day need to be restored Had they put it inside in the first place, then restoration funding wouldn't be an issue. If they weren't prepared to take care of this equipment then they never should have accepted it in the first place.

Above and beyond all that, another BIG mistake they made was painting the F unit in to the classic war bonnet. When it left Albuquerque, it was wearing the little known Silver and Yellow bonnet of the Texas Chief. At a time when the AT&SF was embarking on painting all their new engines in the super fleet paint scheme. Painting a museum piece in the same scheme was pointless. Now a unique piece of history is lost.

Ho wlong have the ABQ shops been derelict? When where they last used? Does BNSF still own the property?
Are there tracks leading to it?

Rail1

grande473 Wrote:
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> BNSF doesn't want the engines back or they
> wouldn't give them away.


First off, BNSF didnt give them away, Santa Fe did. Secondly, they gave them away not knowing what would become of them.

From my sources, I hear that BNSF is very pissed about the condition of the CSRM "historical fleet" and is considering actions that would send the collection to another museum--one that would actually give a crap about them.

But the recently donated F40 and SD45T-2 have been set up nicely along the river (at least thats where they were last time I was up that way). CSRM should have never taken SFe's collection.

Scott

Everyone here whining about this..What have you all done to help CSRM? While not an ATSF fan at all, I would damn well rather see these here then in a DJJX gondola on there was to the peoples republic of china... I am on the board of directors on an NRHS chapter and a volunteer at another museum and I absolutly cant stand to hear some of these people. They whine and cry about getting somthing preserved, when it is, they cry and cry that it sites..but god forbid they come and help work on it!! A thte NRHS chapter im with its like twisting teeth getting people to help, Always the same 5-7 people every week. It boils down to one simple sentence. Put up or shut up.

Paul

Having participated in the "Railroad Preservation arena" for 35 of my 49 years, I have to laugh when statements such as, "It was stored serviceable", or "Lets start a fire in it", or "Just throw a set of batteries in it, and it'll start", are bandied about with NO CLUE as to the actual condition of a piece equipment, or what level of rebuild the unit recieved before it was 'LAID UP'. The ATSF F7s that were mentioned might have been in one paint scheme when they were retired, but that doesn't mean they have to be preserved that way. The F7 A&B were painted shortly before being sent to San Diego, to participate in the PSRM(SDRM) railfair in 1988, were not in running condition, and were hauled DEAD to, and from San Diego. After that event they participated in other events, as well as TV commercials, and print ads. The interesting part is that CSRM had to recieve permission from ATSF to repaint the units using the Warbonnet scheme. I agree that the ATSF collection has suffered, and it goes to show ONE major flaw that most RR Museums have: If a piece of rolling stock(loco/pass. car/frt.car, or in this case an entire collection)is offered to an organization, the response 99.99% of the time is "We'll take it" with absolutely no regard to whether or not the accepting organization has space to properly store/display/protect the piece, and/or the financial ability to fund it. MOST museums collect things without really planning for their acquisition, and restoration, let alone determining if it fits the Mission of their organization, and once they own it, "IT'S OURS, AND WE'LL NEVER GET RID OF IT, TRADE IT, or best of all, WE'LL NEVER LET YOU HAVE IT.
-------------------------------------------------------
> m420 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > One only needs peek at the Pentrex Video of
> the
> > AT&SF collection on the move to see how far
> > this equipment has deteriorated since its
> arrival
> > in California.
> >
> > Look, I truly do understand that it is all
> about
> > funding when it comes to restoration. Hell, If
> I
> > had the $$$ by gawd I'd have a BCR M630 sitting
> > somewhere in two tone green. I also understand
> > that just having the pieces still available for
> > eventual restoration is a good good thing.
> >
> > On the other hand, I have seen the collection.
> The
> > 4-8-4 and the 2-10-4 have become rust-buckets.
> > Others have commented on the condition of the
> > diesels.
> >
> > In hindsight, it seems simple to me, CSRM
> should
> > have turned down the offer of the equipment.
> That,
> > or AT&SF should have included a clause that
> > the equipment at least be stored properly. I
> mean,
> > how much could tarps or even rudimentary
> shelters
> > have cost?
> >
> > Brian E
> >
> >
> That is the point several people have tried to
> make on this post. When this equipment was donated
> ALL of it was in operable condition, even the
> steamers were stored serviceable. CSRM has ALLOWED
> it to deteriorate to the point it would all some
> day need to be restored Had they put it inside in
> the first place, then restoration funding wouldn't
> be an issue. If they weren't prepared to take care
> of this equipment then they never should have
> accepted it in the first place.
>
> Above and beyond all that, another BIG mistake
> they made was painting the F unit in to the
> classic war bonnet. When it left Albuquerque, it
> was wearing the little known Silver and Yellow
> bonnet of the Texas Chief. At a time when the
> AT&SF was embarking on painting all their new
> engines in the super fleet paint scheme. Painting
> a museum piece in the same scheme was pointless.
> Now a unique piece of history is lost.
>
>

There appears to be a lot of people unhappy with the way CSRM handled the ATSF collection. Well, if you're so unhappy, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!! Don't just talk, politicians are good for that. Nothing can be done to change what has already happened. What can happen is to make sure further damage does not continue. Go volunteer and build a shed for them. Donate some money earmarked for their restoration.

Whining and complaining doesn't help. Action does. PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!