Nostalgia & History > It was 70 years ago today

Burlington's Pioneer Zephyr made the history making dawn to dusk run from Denver to Chicago.

Attached photo was taken in 1953 in Palmyra Missouri.

Everywhere West!

Regards,

Burlington John

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If you ran that train today as fast as then between dusk and dawn it would be a sellout.

Todd

webmaster Wrote:
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> If you ran that train today as fast as then
> between dusk and dawn it would be a sellout.
>
> Todd


It would make a pretty nice Trainorders charter too

How fast could it reach? Max speed allowed?

I've seen footage of it going thru tunnel canyons and curves at very high speeds, was the weight what allowed this?

I think EMD should consider producing the same carbbody, not to dream but with a new engine could help...


-Geep

I think I need to get out the original Silver Streak movie tonight for a viewing.

I read that it hit 110 MPH in several places.

> I think EMD should consider producing the same
> carbbody, not to dream but with a new engine could
> help...
>
>
> -Geep

The Q enginemen disliked the front of the carbody as it provided almost no protection in grade crossing collisions. An E-Unit was much more crashworthy.

Kevin

The Pioneer Zephyr was wrecked in a collision while serving on the C&S near Longmont, CO in the early '60's which brought this weakness to the fore, and an engineer was killed. Though this historic unit was repaired, I have heard that signs of this misfortune are still evident under 9900 at the Museum of Science and Industry. This unfortunate event hastened the downgrading and retirement of the rest of the fleet similarly designed, that's why you see quite a few photos of a mismatched E leading a shovelnose. UP's earlier Streamliners with the big automotive grilles in front, from the M-10000 through the E-2's, were also shortly regarded as death traps. Boxcabs in high-speed service were also suspect. I see some of this weakness evident today, like when transit authorities try to make light-rail vehicles do the service of heavy-rail interurbans. The new Colorado Railcar DMU is a beautiful machine, the closest thing we have to a modern shovelnose. It has been tested by the DOT-FRA in Pueblo for buff strength. Yet when you look at the front pilot, all it is, is a sheet metal snow plow. There is no buffer plate behind it, as on any heavy diesel locomotive. On these, the metal is so thick that when you hit it, it sounds like concrete, it does not even ring, and the sheet metal plow is attached to the front. I don't think a standard snowplow is designed to be a sole crash barrier. Though I pray it never happens, I am biding my time until the original DMU is involved in a grade-crossing accident to see if my opinion on the lack of crashworthiness is correct. I will bet more metal will be added to the front end design after a grade crossing altercation. They have been out on tour for a while now, has anybody else looked at the front end of the DMU and wondered? - - - JLH at HGG

To see what's happening to the New England version of the Zephyr, check "flyingingyankee.com" for information on the restoration project in New Hampshire.

According to Margaret Coel's book the Longmont wreck was in the early 1950s and fireman, a man name Grinstead was injured so badly he was forced to take early retirement. Coel's father and grandfather, both named Sam Speas, were engineers on the Colorado & Southern. The younger Speas worked with Grinstead.

Yup, you're right about the date. I wasn't around then! I have the book, just didn't look it up. It did sour the "Q" on that low shovelnose cab design. Looks like it tore up 9900 pretty good in the picture, eh? I have often wondered if there are any other photos of that mishap floating around. I also have wondered exactly which crossing around Longmont that happened at. In the photo in the book, one can see a farm silo in the background, but a lot has changed since then. Someday, one of my projects is going to be to go to the library there to see if I can look up the news story on the event; perhaps it will give me a road name or highway number. - - - - - - JLH

Silver Freak, is more like it!!!

Can't beat Steam!

This isn't Railroading--this is INSANITY!!!


Anyone identify these lines?

Geep Wrote:
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> How fast could it reach? Max speed allowed?
>
> I've seen footage of it going thru tunnel canyons
> and curves at very high speeds, was the weight
> what allowed this?
>
> I think EMD should consider producing the same
> carbbody, not to dream but with a new engine could
> help...
>

Last time I visited the display at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago, I recall that the average speed was about 60 mph.

The train seems to have a low center of gravity and was articulated. Would that explain the possibilities for high speeds?

Beautiful and I was but 13 years old then.

Jim

Did BUDD build the cars and locomotive sheet metal for that train?

Jim
Hatboro, PA

Following info from wickopedia....trip was done 5/26/34. 1015 miles in 13 hours, 5 minutes, for an average of 77 MPH. The 70 year anniversary was back in '04, folks......someone do the math, please!!

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

agentatascadero Wrote:
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> Following info from wickopedia....trip was done
> 5/26/34. 1015 miles in 13 hours, 5 minutes, for
> an average of 77 MPH. The 70 year anniversary was
> back in '04, folks......someone do the math,
> please!!
>
> AA


Uhh. . . . .

You might want to notice that the original post -- the one up at the top of this thread with the picture of the Locomotive -- was written on 5/26/2004. . . .exactly 70 years after the notable trip. . . . .

Narniaman Wrote:
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> agentatascadero Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Following info from wickopedia....trip was done
> > 5/26/34. 1015 miles in 13 hours, 5 minutes,
> for
> > an average of 77 MPH. The 70 year anniversary
> was
> > back in '04, folks......someone do the math,
> > please!!
> >
> > AA
>
>
> Uhh. . . . .
>
> You might want to notice that the original post --
> the one up at the top of this thread with the
> picture of the Locomotive -- was written on
> 5/26/2004. . . .exactly 70 years after the notable
> trip. . . . .


Ummmm, sitting here very red faced, I had not noticed the original '04 posting. Thanks for that "update".

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

Here is the Pioneer Zephyr at the Chicago Museum last year.

The nose, the RPO crane, and the memorial plaque.

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Three more images of the Pioneer Zephyr at the Chicago Museum.

The round-end obs, the engine room, and the operator's compartment.

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