Nostalgia & History > Three 3-way RR crossings in the US?

Actual 3-way crossings, I mean-- where a third track crosses thru the diamond formed by the rails of two crossing railroads, so that you can stand between the rails of three tracks at once. Trains 12/62 ("Would You Believe It") has a pic of one at Columbus, down in the SE corner of Kansas, where rails of two Frisco lines and an MKT branch (to Joplin) form a star of David. It says it was believed to be one of three in the country. Where are/were the others?

I can think of 2 right away. I suspect there might be more than 3. Burnham Tower, SE Chicago, PRR and a C&WI spur formed a 3-way cross with the NKP main. What about Griffith,IN? EL, C&O, GTW, EJ&E, and PC crossed in multi-triangles. What about North Judson,IN, State Line, or Pullman Jct.? Chicago had lots of places like that. Unless you're talking about a perfect triangle, that would cut it down a bit.

The C&WI spur at Burnham doesn't show on the old topo maps. Where'd it go?

Griffith looks unlikely, and State Line is doubtful, but far as we can see from the map C&O-Erie-NYCent could have done it at North Judson. Dunno about Pullman Jct-- who would it be?

Here's a copy of a pic of the North Judson operators panel... It looks like the C&O crossing the Erie might have been a 'triple' crossing. Does anyone have any photographs of this location?

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Don't forget the 3 level bridge in Richmond, VA, that has to count.

timz Wrote:
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> Actual 3-way crossings, I mean-- where a third
> track crosses thru the diamond formed by the rails
> of two crossing railroads, so that you can stand
> between the rails of three tracks at once. Trains
> 12/62 ("Would You Believe It") has a pic of one at
> Columbus, down in the SE corner of Kansas, where
> rails of two Frisco lines and an MKT branch (to
> Joplin) form a star of David. It says it was
> believed to be one of three in the country. Where
> are/were the others?

There was a 3 way in Lohrville Iowa. I remeber someone mentioning it last summer. Here is the link to the thread about it. Not sure if it was a perfect diamond though.


http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,774899

Craig

The C&O and NYC's single track diamond was between the east and west bound mains
of the Erie at North Judson. FN Tower in Trenton had an interesting setup. I
believe there was a double track line, and two single track lines that all
paralleled each other, and the two single track lines crossed over each other (and
the double track line, which was between the two single track lines) at the location,
making a diamond similar to the one described at North Judson.
Although neither of these actually had 3 tracks crossing at a single point. The
one at Burnham, looking at an interlocking chart, showed a crossover from a line
south of the eastbound main of the NKP that crosses over both NKP mains to the
eastbound main of the C&WI, with one of the diamonds being a 3-way with the north/south
SC&S (PRR) line that also crossed there (it also crossed the South Shore, which was
north of the C&WI mains):
Here's a chart of it: http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Maps/Itlk/burnham.gif

This type of crossing must have been very rare. Why would a triple be necessary unless the rail ROWs were severely geographically constrained? What are the odds of three or more rail lines being built to cross at exactly the same point? It would seem that crossings at shallower angles would be better accommodated by crossovers vs. a diamond.

Mainline crossing diamonds are very expensive to maintain. They are hard on diesel traction motors. They can be an operational bottleneck. Railroads only use them with great reluctance. The preferred method in modern times is to build CTC crossovers, flyovers or overcrossings. Bob

timz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actual 3-way crossings, I mean-- where a third
> track crosses thru the diamond formed by the rails
> of two crossing railroads, so that you can stand
> between the rails of three tracks at once. Trains
> 12/62 ("Would You Believe It") has a pic of one at
> Columbus, down in the SE corner of Kansas, where
> rails of two Frisco lines and an MKT branch (to
> Joplin) form a star of David. It says it was
> believed to be one of three in the country. Where
> are/were the others?


That 3-way crossing was removed many years ago. The two Frisco lines were the Edward, Ks. to Afton, Ok. line crossed by its own Monett, Mo. to Ellis, Ks. line; they at 90 degrees. The MKT Branch from Parsons, Ks. to Joplin, Mo. bi-sected the 90 x-ing at 45 degrees. A maintenence nightmare, the KATY portion was removed and the crossing of the Frisco accomplished by a series of turnouts instead. The actual diamond lay in the weeds for several years until a 'convienent' derailment in the yard at Columbus required the calling of Hulcher Emergency Services to clean up the mess. When all was in order the Asst. Division Supt. 'added' the chore of picking up the diamond, which resulted in the puncturing of a low-boy's tire, (added to Hulchers tab, no doubt) and moved it to a park in Columbus where the local historical folks wanted it for display. I was the RFE there at the time. Does the diamond still exist?

Charlie

I ran across two such interlockings on my territory. One was at Beaumont, TX, where the SP and the ATSF both crossed the MP double main, and the other was at Opelousas, LA, where the TP and the SP crossed the MP single main. The one at Beaumont is a manual interlocking once controlled by the joint MP-SP Tower 74, now controlled by the UP dispatcher at Spring. The one at Opelousas was completely automatic. It took a sick-minded official to pull interlocking tests at Opelousas, as our average 125-car trains would have a dozen crossings tied up westbound, and a major highway tied up eastbound.

pb1

cewherry Wrote:
> Does the diamond still exist?
>
> Charlie
>


It did at the end of May 1998. I got pics somewhere. It was on display with a caboose of some sort, if I uhmember right. Nice display.

Thanks for the Lohrville link, which says it wasn't a 3-way diamond.

Looking at the maps I see no indication of a 3-way diamond at Beaumont or Opelousas. Where were they?

Szwajkart's Chicago guide has a pic of Burnham, showing one rail of the I-guess-C&WI track crossing the PRR/NKP diamond, but not the other rail. So, half a winner.

Anybody have a pic of 21st St Chicago, showing one way or the other?

Burnham is a definite, I have a picture of it. The 3-way was on the NKP westbound main. Another possibility is in Cleveland at Harvard Ave., with PRR-NSS-WLE diamonds. I can't remember seeing a picture, maybe on the Fallen Flags website. Checking some photos, Griffith may have just missed, but North Judson looks good. Several others, Colsan, Ohio City, no go. Somehow Toledo seems likely. Scioto Tower in Columbus, was a triangle, but no 3-way. There had to be several anonymous 3-way diamonds of industrial spurs, probably in Pittsburgh or Cleveland or Chicago.

The 4-way diamond at Beaumont (remember- the MP is double track through Beaumont) is located between 4th Street and Crockett Street. The SP and ATSF tracks are also accessible through the Northwest Connection and the Southwest Connection. This was MOP MP 460.

Either or both of the branchlines at that crossed the MP at Opelousas may be gone by now, but they were still in place around 1990. This was MOP MP 590.

pb1

Powerbraker1, they're talking about a Star-of-David "super-
diamond" where 3 lines cross in 1 expensive custom diamond,
not 3 lines crossing at 3 separate diamonds. I looked up
Beaumont, TX, and Opelousas, LA, on Terraserver, and the
latter is what's there.

If the 3 "super-diamonds" mentioned in "Ripley's Believe It
Or Not" were Columbus, KS, North Judson, IN, and Burnham,
IL, all of these have been removed or replaced by conventional diamonds. Here's a USGS
1977 topo map view, courtesy of Terraserver, of the
3-way crossing in Columbus, KS, before the ex-MKT was
abandoned-
<http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?
T=2&S=11&Z=15&X=842&Y=10289&W=1&qs=%7ccolumbus%7c%7c>
Here's how the aerial view looks in 1991 with the ex-MKT
missing- the line that ran northwest to south-
<http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?
T=1&S=10&Z=15&X=1684&Y=20579&W=1&qs=%7ccolumbus%7c%7c>

At North Judson, IN, 2 of the 3 lines are now abandoned.

This is what I understand to be the Burnham (Chicago area),
IL, crossing- Terraserver view from 4/2002 detailed color
Urban Area Map-
<http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?
T=4&S=9&Z=16&X=4548&Y=46104&W=1&qs=%7cburnham%7c%7c>
No "super-diamond" now.

I've looked at the other suggested crossings, and the closest (no cigar) is this one in Chicago on the St. Charles Air Line- http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?T=4&amp;S=9&amp;Z=16&amp;X=4476&amp;Y=46344&amp;W=1&amp;qs=%7cchicago%7c%7c

"Super-diamonds"- another interesting railroad feature that we'll probably never see again in the U.S.

mapboy

Ahhh, thanks. I thought we were talking about 3 or more crossings within an interlocking.

pb1

Here is a picture of the 3-way crossing at Columbus Ks. in November 1983. The Katy track had been disconnected but can be seen in the background.

Yardclerk

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I figured somebody around here had a pic handy. I'm assuming this shows it in it's original location...yes/no? Where was the crossing in relation to where it sits in the park today?

The crossing was still in its original location when I took my picture. I have no idea where it is now.

Yadclerk

mapboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the 3 "super-diamonds" mentioned in "Ripley's
> Believe It
> Or Not" were Columbus, KS, North Judson, IN, and
> Burnham,
> IL, all of these have been removed or replaced by
> conventional diamonds.

North Judson is only a shadow of it's former self. At one time, 4 railroads crossed
within the interlocking (PRR, NYC, C&O and EL). Only the C&O is left, and it ends
in town at the Hoosier Valley Railroad Musuem, althuogh a piece of the Erie is still
there (it went to Monterey in recent years, but was abandoned last year and torn up).
Burnham is also missing alot of trackage, as the C&WI no longer exists in the area,
with the trackage all being torn out from State Line west to the vertical lift bridge
alongside Torrence Ave (the trackage is still in place from there to Pullman Jct). I
don't know that North Judson ever had this "super diamond" though, the only photos I've
seen have an unusual occurance (having two lines cross between the double track of the
3rd line), but not all 3 crossing in a single diamond.