Canadian Railroads > Question - A bit off topic

Interested in current operations at Thunder Bay and have a couple of historical questions. Why was the name changed from Port Arthur to Thunder Bay? Does Fort William still exist as a separate community and lastly is there still a good deal of trans loading to lake boats from the CP? Thanks for any info....

Bill Root
New Castle, Delaware

According to Wikipedia:


On 1 January 1970, the City of Thunder Bay was formed through the merger of the cities of Fort William, Port Arthur and the geographic townships of Neebing and McIntyre.[9] Its name was the result of a referendum held previously on 23 June 1969, to determine the new name of the amalgamated Fort William and Port Arthur. Officials debated over the names to be put on the ballot, taking suggestions from residents including "Lakehead" and "The Lakehead". Predictably, the vote split between the two, and "Thunder Bay" was the victor. The final tally was "Thunder Bay" with 15,870, "Lakehead" with 15,302, and "The Lakehead" with 8,377.[12]

But it is still commonly referred to as "The Lakehead". The term has become synonymous with the greater area of Thunder Bay.

Rick



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/13 02:29 by rschonfelder.

CP still brings in lots of coal & grain to Thunder Bay-Biggest Canadian grain port-

Mike Bannon
St Catharines, ON

Fort William and Port Arthur are still clearly separate places. The old CP depot in Ft. William still exists, as does the (much grander) Canadian Northern station in Port Arthur. The downtowns of the two places are distinct, with Port Arthur very much the larger.

The CP mainline was the first railroad through The Lakehead, in the 1880s. Canadian Northern was next, building from Longlac, Ontario down to Port Arthur (and closely paralleling CP along Lake Superior) and then more or less due west along the US border to the vicinity of International Falls, MN before turning northwest toward Winnipeg. CN ran RDC service from Thunder Bay to Winnipeg until the late 1970s over this route. It actually goes through a small piece of the US. There is a northern bump in the Minnesota/Canada border called "the northwest angle" that protrudes into what would otherwise be Canadian territory, and the railroad runs right through it.

The third line into The Lakehead was built by the National Transcontinental and was known as the Graham Sub. It came southeast from what is now the CN main line, and has been abandoned, AFAIK.

How much traffic comes in on the CN from Fort Frances - Atikokan route? It used to be substantial however I think it has tapered off some.

The last time I passed thru Thunder Bay on TIOGA PASS in escort service we sat there for several hours for crew rest, I believe. A friendly operating supervisor took coffee with us on the car and he knew some interesting details about Thunder Bay. Originally, Thunder Bay was the destination for about half of the grain loaded in the prairies on both CN and CP. There, the wheat mostly was stored in elevators ( there were 28 huge grain terminals in Thunder Bay ) and loaded into ships for domestic consumption, or to ships going to Europe after the opening of the St. Lawrence Seaway. Not all grain was exported thru Thunder Bay. CN and CP could also deliver grain to ships at Halifax and St. Johns on the Atlantic.
Today, I was told, only 4 or 5 of the grain terminals are even in use. He said the volume of grain exported to Europe declined rapidly in the 50's and 60's because Europe recovered their farming abilities quickly at our expense with the Marshall Plan.
That grain which was going to Europe went to Atlantic ports which could handle much larger, more efficient ships. Domestic grain really stays on the rail and crosses the border much more quickly. Thunder Bay, in a sense, mirrors what has happened to much of the grain traffic in Canada. The grain is now rolling West to Vancouver, Portland, Tacoma, and Prince Rupert in unit trains for shipment to Asia.
There is some export coal traffic from Southern Alberta that is loaded on ships at Thunder Bay, and I believe a bit of export potash also.
I suppose this proves that railroads cannot operate in a vacuum - politics, wars, economics, and many other factors can change a railroads traffic base so quickly, eh?

TIOGA PASS

TIOGA PASS

I rode the Thunder Bay (Port Arthur) Budd car to Winnipeg in May 77 just a week or so before it came off. Seems like There was a CN owned hotel a block or so from the CN Station, which ,for the money, around $25 a night was real nice. Is it still standing and in use?

aronco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The last time I passed thru Thunder Bay on TIOGA
> PASS in escort service we sat there for several
> hours for crew rest, I believe. A friendly
> operating supervisor took coffee with us on the
> car and he knew some interesting details about
> Thunder Bay. Originally, Thunder Bay was the
> destination for about half of the grain loaded in
> the prairies on both CN and CP. There, the wheat
> mostly was stored in elevators ( there were 28
> huge grain terminals in Thunder Bay ) and loaded
> into ships for domestic consumption, or to ships
> going to Europe after the opening of the St.
> Lawrence Seaway. Not all grain was exported thru
> Thunder Bay. CN and CP could also deliver grain
> to ships at Halifax and St. Johns on the
> Atlantic.
> Today, I was told, only 4 or 5 of the grain
> terminals are even in use. He said the volume of
> grain exported to Europe declined rapidly in the
> 50's and 60's because Europe recovered their
> farming abilities quickly at our expense with the
> Marshall Plan.
> That grain which was going to Europe went to
> Atlantic ports which could handle much larger,
> more efficient ships. Domestic grain really stays
> on the rail and crosses the border much more
> quickly. Thunder Bay, in a sense, mirrors what
> has happened to much of the grain traffic in
> Canada. The grain is now rolling West to
> Vancouver, Portland, Tacoma, and Prince Rupert in
> unit trains for shipment to Asia.
> There is some export coal traffic from Southern
> Alberta that is loaded on ships at Thunder Bay,
> and I believe a bit of export potash also.
> I suppose this proves that railroads cannot
> operate in a vacuum - politics, wars, economics,
> and many other factors can change a railroads
> traffic base so quickly, eh?
>
> TIOGA PASS
>
> TIOGA PASS


Thanks for the background. The opening of the St Lawrence Seaway made a huge impact on commerce over the Great Lakes, as well as an impact on grain elevators in Montreal, etc. Montreal had shipped a lot of grain to Europe as late as the 1950s.