Canadian Railroads > Life in Churchill

CBC report:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/churchill-manitoba-rail-line-dispute-residents-1.4559515

Government of Canada should repair the line, confiscate all of the owners holdings in Canada as well as sue them.. if this was in Quebec the $$$ to repair it would have been there long ago..

BTB

I think it is a government responsibility to repair the railroad. It is there instead of a government supported road and their economy is suffering without it. Why is there no disaster aid forthcoming to the track owner ?

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/18 17:23 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it is a government responsibility to
> repair the railroad. It is there instead of a
> government supported road and their economy is
> suffering without it. Why is there no disaster aid
> forthcoming to the track owner ?
>
> Posted from Android

Because they acted like jerks and killed any chance of getting any favors from the Governments, both Federal and Provincial.

They just need to move everyone to Winnipeg.

reindeerflame Wrote:
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> They just need to move everyone to Winnipeg.


Oh sure!
Typical know-nothing comment I expect from you.

Will MacKenzie
Dundas, ON

Boy wonder socialist PM is too busy making everything gender neutral to be worried by such trivial matters.

It seems that anything rail beyond the Corridor is out of sight - out of mind. Trudeau seems as dismissive about the economic and social effects of storm/natural disaster damage on some of his people as the US's Blonde Bombshell is about Puerto Rico, attitude being, tough, don't live there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/18 05:16 by joemvcnj.

The Port of Churchill was a dream of many in the late 1800's and into the early 1900's.

Initially, the Canadian Northern thought about building to Churchill, and swung their main line way to the north in Manitoba and Saskatchewan with that in mind. However, the CNor hedged their bets by building another more southerly route to the west.

Another railway attempted to build to Churchill from Dauphin MB, and the Canadian Government ended up completing the line.

In those days, the settlers and farmers of the west packed a lot of political power. The concept of a western port which avoided the high freight tariffs charged to use the eastern ports, and which was ice free longer than the Great Lakes and the St.Lawrence River was reason enough to build to Churchill.

The annual amount of grain shipped from Churchill was closely monitored and published. The Canadian Government built two huge concrete grain elevators there.

Churchill became a community to which the aboriginal people living on the tundra could come and live. A mixed train on the line served the First Nations south of there.

Truth be known, the route to Hudson Bay was forever subsidized from construction to the present day.

In the 1980's, a new transportation Act by the Canadian Government made abandonment, sale or lease of rail lines much simpler. The established railways just had to prove a route unprofitable .

Omnitrax took over several parts of the CP and CN. The rules of profitability applied to the shortlines also. Some shortlines have prospered, others have vanished when it was proven that even the economies of short lines could not sustain profitability. Shortline advocates point out that in many cases, shortlining preserved rail operations long enough for shippers to find other modes of transport.

We now come to the concept of a "social" railway, one which will never be profitable but which serves a social need.

A clever way to protect the funding for such railways is to transfer them to local authorities. Cutting funding to a remote aboriginal community would be political suicide for any Government suggesting it. Tseutin Rail (the northern part of the QNS&L) is an example of a social railway operated efficiently by the Cree nation, who also operate airlines in the area.

The Hudson Bay issue presents another challenge. Massive amounts of funds are required to rebuild the rail line.

In these polarized political times, the decision comes down to this, spend the money on a hopelessly unprofitable railway to support a few thousand people who depend on it, or abandon the line and relocate the people by starving them out.

Wasn't the Wheat Board part of the subsidy mix for Churchill?

By directing a portion of the export to the more expensive port, the Board supplied paying freight, creating a need for rail and port jobs. Once the Board was dismantled, the extra costs of shipping export wheat through Churchill doomed that part of the cargo mix.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> Wasn't the Wheat Board part of the subsidy mix for
> Churchill?
>
> By directing a portion of the export to the more
> expensive port, the Board supplied paying freight,
> creating a need for rail and port jobs. Once the
> Board was dismantled, the extra costs of shipping
> export wheat through Churchill doomed that part of
> the cargo mix.

The interesting thing is that the Wheat Board has remained abolished under a Liberal Government.

Many of the changes made by the Harper Conservatives have been reversed by the Liberals, but the wheat board remains dead.

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think it is a government responsibility to
> > repair the railroad. It is there instead of a
> > government supported road and their economy is
> > suffering without it. Why is there no disaster
> aid
> > forthcoming to the track owner ?
> >
> > Posted from Android
>
> Because they acted like jerks and killed any
> chance of getting any favors from the Governments,
> both Federal and Provincial.

Surprising that the leadership of Omnitrax, almost all former Class One bozos from Canada, would act like that to their former country. They sure live up to that reputation in the States. Wish they would all pack up and go back north.

Before the wash outs occurred Omnitrax was in negotiations with the local Aboriginal population to sell the entire line to Churchill. Omnitrax wanted out long before the track damage, and it is my belief had the washouts not occurred the line would have been sold/transferred to the group, effectively making the railway a ward of the Government.

-Trevor

irhoghead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Surprising that the leadership of Omnitrax, almost
> all former Class One bozos from Canada, would act
> like that to their former country. They sure live
> up to that reputation in the States. Wish they
> would all pack up and go back north.


The big railways did a definite "sell job" to the regionals and short lines they sold off lines to.

"If only we weren't burdened by high labour costs, we would be able to make money on the line", truth is in some cases, the big railways could see an end coming to a traffic base and got out while they could. They also shed middle managers and other staff who they otherwise would have to have supported.

A nearby short line did win back some traffic that the previous owner had shunned, but when the major shipper closed its plant, Omnitrax was out of there.

Interesting to hear some of the background to the Churchill area. The far north is intriguing but it is still far.

What are the differences between Moosonee and Churchill? Both are on Hudson's Bay, both are far north of the political centers, maybe Churchill further north. Both have railroads, both claim to have Ports, both appear to have large First Nation populations, what else? Am I missing a political element?

Mosoonee seems to have the support of Ontario, the Ontario Northland Railway appears to be running. There is a port at both locations, is the terrain and weather that much worse in Churchill?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moosonee

Can't find the mileage, conflicting as to whether they still have Rail service.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churchill,_Manitoba

1,100 mi by rail from The Pas, Manitoba.

tia.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/18 21:01 by TCnR.

eminence_grise Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In these polarized political times, the decision
> comes down to this, spend the money on a
> hopelessly unprofitable railway to support a few
> thousand people who depend on it, or abandon the
> line and relocate the people by starving them out.

Why relocate the people of Churchill because the rail line might be gone? And what do you mean....starve them out ??? They currently have the same access to supplies as just about every other community in the north has by air... and many have water access just like Churchill during the northern shipping season (which is increasing with global warming) Iqaluit (pop 8000) the capital of Nunavut is served by air and water only. Things in the north are more expensive but residents do get a northern living allowance. Perhaps Churchill will get a road someday like Tuktoyaktuk did....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/multimedia/driving-to-the-top-of-the-world-exploring-canada-s-new-arctic-highway-1.4073615

My point about "starving them out" has an element of political reality.

Although difficult to prove because bureaucrats cover their tracks, solving the problem by doing nothing has taken place many times in the past.

A "proactive" Government would have found ways to start repairing the tracks before now, or seeking alternative affordable transportation.

How long can people of limited financial needs buy $10 loaves of bread and $20 hamburgers even with a "northern subsidy".

We have seen it with treatment of veterans, somewhere in the corridors of power, a bean counter has figured out that by doing nothing, the problem will solve itself as the veterans die of old age.

ghCBNS Wrote:
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and
> many have water access just like Churchill during
> the northern shipping season (which is increasing
> with global warming)

Ha, ha ha! You just rendered the rest of your comment baseless.

P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ghCBNS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> and
> > many have water access just like Churchill
> during
> > the northern shipping season (which is
> increasing
> > with global warming)
>
> Ha, ha ha! You just rendered the rest of your
> comment baseless.

There's a lot of fact based evidence (first buds of the DC cherry trees, average date of first 70 degree day in Chicago, day the ice breaks on the St Lawrence River at Massena, etc) that something is changing in the US. Century old records of snowfall, and extremes, etc are being recorded.

Whether this is "global warming" or "climate change" or "just unusual" is something that ought to be measured.

The Atlantic talks about science based analysis: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/03/how-bad-is-an-early-warm-spring-climate-change/517992/