Canadian Railroads > Via 2, 1989 on CP, people pictures and interiors

On November 12th, 1989, a joined a friend for a final ride on the CP route "Canadian" train 2 from Revelstoke BC to Banff AB.

Being mid-winter, much of the journey was at night. Having worked a variety of train and engine crew positions on the CP route "Canadian", for me it was a journey to say goodbye to many of the crew members before the train was discontinued in January 1990.

The first three images are inside the "Park" observation and dome car, showing the rear lounge, dome and "Mural" lounge.

Interior of the dining car serving breakfast.

Train conductor Art Betts.

Railfan talking to Via on board service manager and CP tail end trainman.

Passengers boarding Via 2 at Banff.

Baggage joining the train at Banff, lots of hardshells suitcases. Note the coffin travelling in a "rough box" in the baggage car.

Train baggageman Daryl Kimball and his work station in the baggage car.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/19 15:31 by eminence_grise.

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The good old days !
Taking a trip on the "Canadian" in February ! Can't wait... :):):)
I know it's not the same route, but still being able to ride her in 2020 is goimg to be special !!! :):):)

That is an interesting dining car. Overhead luggage racks are visible. The ex-CN full diners that had been converted from coaches had their luggage racks removed and a dropped ceiling installed. At first glance it doesn't appear to be the coach section of the Skyline cars which were used as a diner on most consists of that time, but after looking at in more detail it may be. I particularly recall the tables nearest the centre of the car did not match the windows, but in this photo they do. Any comments are appreciated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/19 20:54 by DrawingroomA.

DrawingroomA Wrote:
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> That is an interesting dining car. Overhead
> luggage racks are visible. The ex-CN full diners
> that had been converted from coaches had their
> luggage racks removed and a dropped ceiling
> installed. At first glance it doesn't appear to be
> the coach section of the Skyline cars which were
> used as a diner on most consists of that time, but
> after looking at in more detail it may be. I
> particularly recall the tables nearest the centre
> of the car did not match the windows, but in this
> photo they do. Any comments are appreciated.

I think it is the converted portion of the Skyline Car - with the photographer taking the picture towards the middle of the Skyline hence the (wall) that's behind the server in the picture and presumablt the hallway that then takes a left turn. Conductor sitting on the "other side" of the Skyline (cafe). 

What was VIA thinking when they started using those ex. CN diner's instead of the Budds. Weren't there enough to provide the then daily service? Or perhaps refurbishment was in place. Regardless CN equipment, including the sleepers was poor compared to what CP offered. 

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> What was VIA thinking when they started using
> those ex. CN diner's instead of the Budds. Weren't
> there enough to provide the then daily service? Or
> perhaps refurbishment was in place. Regardless CN
> equipment, including the sleepers was poor
> compared to what CP offered. 

I was told it was indeed the refurbishment of the ex-CPR diners that caused VIA to use the CN diners for quite a while. To my taste they were not very attractive with their dropped ceiling and too-bright fluorescent lighting. The last one we ate  in on the VIA Super Continental leaked in the rain. At one meal we had to move to another table because so much rain was coming in the window.

jp1822 Wrote:
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...
> I think it is the converted portion of the Skyline
> Car - with the photographer taking the picture
> towards the middle of the Skyline hence the (wall)
> that's behind the server in the picture and
> presumablt the hallway that then takes a left
> turn. Conductor sitting on the "other side" of the
> Skyline (cafe). 

I now see a sign that is a warning that there are two steps down to go under the dome. There were some modifications in the Skyline dining sections with the major rebuild of 1990 - 1992. The table closest to the kitchen on the right-hand side of the photo no longer aligned with the window. On one trip our group of four were the first to enter the "diner" when the dinner call was made and we were seated at that table. I had a blank spot beside me - and this was going through the Rockies. I asked the steward to be moved to another table.

The exterior of the train is shown at Banff, the "Skyline" was being used as the diner.

The passenger count was up, with many others taking a last ride too. The daily schedule at that time allowed passengers from Calgary to ride to Banff and back in a day.

Similarly,the train arrived in Vancouver in the morning and departed at night, allowing a full day in the city, a popular option.

The fairly young crew was a result of many of the older employees taking the last couple of months off as accumulated time off and vacation time.
'

Shortly before the end of the Canadian on CPR tracks a friend and I took a trip from Winnipeg to Vancouver and back with a one-day stopover at Banff w/b and at Lake Louise on the return. I was unable to get time off work to do the entire run. I was surprised the passenger load wasn't higher as I had been hoping the full diner would be used.  On the last run from Toronto a full diner was used.

Resuming our trip at Banff involved a late train. We were told there had been locomotive problems. Arrival in Vancouver was about seven or eight hours late.  The return from Vancouver ran on time and after our stopover in Lake Louise. The steam generator car failed approaching Brandon. During the stop there when it became apparent the only steam would come from the "B" unit (this was mid-Jan., of course) so VIA's management had two choices. One was to annul the train there and bus everyone to Winnipeg or to take a chance and proceed to Winnipeg with limited heat. VIA chose the latter and we made it.

eminence_grise Wrote:
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> The exterior of the train is shown at Banff, the
> "Skyline" was being used as the diner.
>
> The passenger count was up, with many others
> taking a last ride too. The daily schedule at that
> time allowed passengers from Calgary to ride to
> Banff and back in a day.
>
> Similarly,the train arrived in Vancouver in the
> morning and departed at night, allowing a full day
> in the city, a popular option.
>
> The fairly young crew was a result of many of the
> older employees taking the last couple of months
> off as accumulated time off and vacation time.
> '

I would think that the Calgary to Banff and Banff to Calgary trips as well as Banff/Lake Louise to Vancouver and vice versa trips were pretty popular to "some" when the train was operating daily. This probably got the Canadian some added passengers/revenue that would not carryover to a three-day a week train operation, even though the Canadian never operated less than daily on the CP routing. For some reason, I don't remember the Skyline having so much brown in it (the dining/coach section nor the cafe portion). The yellow booths and uniforms, yes. 

Does anyone know when VIA officially made the dining tables permanent in what was the coach section, and "reversed" the seats in the dome car etc.? I thought this was officially done with the 1990s overhaul of these cars. In 1989, VIA still had the ability to go back and forth between dining and coach for this car. Weird to see the overhead luggage racks!!!

In about what year were the ex-CN Diners and other mainline cars finally pulled - excluding what was operating on the Hudson Bay Route or what VIA now calls the "Adventure Routes?" I remember seeing a ex-CN Diner on the Hudson Bay train a few years after the Canadian had been shifted to its present CN routing.  

VIA had a lot of the ex-CN cars to dispose of after the 1990 cuts - sleepers, diners, coaches, day-niters, lounges, RDC's, etc. Course Rocky Mountaineer got to pick some cars over to keep "Daylight in the Rockies" continued (and they got refurbished into Red Leaf Coaches and more). In an ironic way the 1990 cuts led to VIA having a more "standardized" fleet. Budd built stainless steel cars were the preference. 

One of the really sad changes was to the "Mural" lounge under the dome in the Park Car.

The mural lounges as built featured murals painted by the famous "Group of Seven" Canadian artists. These had become quite worn after several decades of service on the train.

While I applause the National Gallery acquiring the paintings, I wish they had created full size replicas to put in the cars. Until the HEP program took place, Via just covered the walls with brown arbourite . This took place in the dining and Skyline cars also. I don't know if the starlight lighting in the diners survived the changes. I'm sure the pule blue ceiling with tiny starlights was a Budd invention.

The etched glass partitions and the lino cuts survived .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/19 07:55 by eminence_grise.

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
...
>
> Does anyone know when VIA officially made the
> dining tables permanent in what was the coach
> section, and "reversed" the seats in the dome car
> etc.? I thought this was officially done with the
> 1990s overhaul of these cars. In 1989, VIA still
> had the ability to go back and forth between
> dining and coach for this car. Weird to see the
> overhead luggage racks!!!
>
...

I hope someone can be more precise, but I first saw a Skyline as diner on the off-peak Canadian approximately in 1984. By then VIA had downgraded the food quality so the tiny kitchen in the Skyline was able to prepare the same meals as the full diners they replaced.  The dome seats were reversed. There were some changes during the rebuilding programme in 1990 - 1992. In addition to what I previously mentioned, there was an open preparation area between the table section and the kitchen. Toast, coffee and tea were made there.

I'm not sure if all the Skylines were reversed at that time, but Skylines were later used as diners on the Skeena when it was an overnight train (Jasper-Prince Rupert) and on the Chaleur on the Gaspé service.

DrawingroomA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Resuming our trip at Banff involved a late train.
> We were told there had been locomotive problems.
> Arrival in Vancouver was about seven or eight
> hours late. 

Could this be the very late Via 1 you rode? This train which would have arrived at Vancouver on November 19th,1989 is shown along the Eagle River west of Revelstoke, already over 12 hours late (running extra after timetable schedule expired).  The use of two F40's was unusual.

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eminence_grise Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Could this be the very late Via 1 you rode? This
> train which would have arrived at Vancouver on
> November 19th,1989 is shown along the Eagle River
> west of Revelstoke, already over 12 hours late
> (running extra after timetable schedule
> expired).  The use of two F40's was unusual.

No, our trip was a little over a week before the major cuts of January 1990. I note the train in the photo has a dining car, something we missed on our four segments.

eminence_grise Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of the really sad changes was to the "Mural"
> lounge under the dome in the Park Car.
>
> The mual lounges as built featured murals painted
> by the famous "Group of Seven" Canadian artists.
> These had become quite worn after several decades
> of service on the train.
>
> While I applause the National Gallery acquiring
> the paintings, I wish they had created full size
> replicas to put in the cars. Until the HEP program
> took place, Via just covered the walls with brown
> arbourite . This took place in the dining and
> Skyline cars also. I don't know if the starlight
> lighting in the diners survived the changes. I'm
> sure the pule blue ceiling with tiny starlights
> was a Budd invention.
>
> The etched glass partitions and the lino cuts
> survived .

I feel the same about the removal of the murals in the lounges. I recall one reproduction appeared in the Mural Lounge of one Park car. I didn’t photograph it, but I believe it was Charles Comfort’s Banff Park which was my favourite of the murals. I don’t recall if the reproduction was in the Park car of the same name. This is just from memory, but I recall it may or may not have been full-size and was not a very good reproduction. I got the impression it was a blown-up photograph.
 
I was pleased that the original murals were put on display in various locations. I was able to view some of them in Toronto, St. Thomas and at the McMichael Gallery in Kleinburg, Ontario.
 
I have seen most, if not all, of the new murals commissioned for the rebuilt Park cars. Art, like food, is a matter of personal taste. Most of the new murals do not appeal to me. VIA wisely put glass in front of them to prevent the damage that was caused to the original murals, mostly from people resting their heads on them and from tobacco smoke which, of course, is no longer an issue.
 
When the four Prestige Park cars were rebuilt, their murals were removed and replaced with a mirror. Sadly, the etched glass walls were also removed. The four murals are now displayed in the Business Lounge at Toronto Union Station.  One of them, I am told, is worth a small fortune: an art work of glass and metal shards by Jean-Paul Riopelle.
 

There is a mystery regarding images I have seen of the similar lounge in the tail end car of the "California Zephyr".

It is a builders photograph of the lounge, showing a back lit photo mural (like a giant light box). The image behind the glass appears to be Mount Rundle, which is the mountain behind Banff.

I'm sure the mural got changed over the years, and that the Rundle image (probably by Byron Harmon, a famed mountain photographer from Banff) was simply there as an example of Rocky Mountain Scenery).

Lots of great info in this thread, thanks to all the contributors. Another question regarding the reconfiguration of the Skyline cars - in original diagrams and photos from CP it shows the section under the dome adjacent to the kitchen was a lounge seating area. It's now used as a bar/pantry area. Does anyone know when this change was made and why?