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Canadian Railroads > ONR Northlander display 1978.


Date: 01/11/20 20:14
ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: eminence_grise

For many years, Belleville ON. , a division point east of Toronto on CN's Toronto-Montreal main line sponsored a railway themed event which culminated in a steam excursions from Toronto behind CN 6218 and later 6060, with several shorter excursions for students and service clubs.  Some years, railway displays were included. 1978 was such a year.

I'm thinking the "Northlander" was very recently imported from Europe when it was displayed at Belleville in May 1978. I'm not sure if this was a standard consist, or shortened for display purposes.

The European locomotives were not used very long in service, soon replaced with modified FP7a's.  The passenger cars proved popular with travellers as at least some had compartments.

The European locomotives were scrapped, but the cars returned to Europe.








Date: 01/11/20 20:53
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: TCnR

I've never been able to figure out this set up. There were a couple of boarded up cars sitting in North Bay a few years ago. I'm wondering if your Photo #2 shows the opposite end of the display train, being a Cab car so-to-speak, combining a Cab and a Coach. If so that describes one of the cars in North Bay. There is a Wikipedia for ONR that gives a bit of description of the equipment. The current Google satellite view shows the cars near where I photographed them, a nearby Rail Museum has opened and my be their display-destination.

+ Had to dig these out of an XP database and prepare them for TO. At the time there was construction going on in the area, it appeared that the equipment had been coupled together and moved then the track was removed and the equipment was in an interim location. Looking at Google Satellite photos the steam locomotive and the caboose appear to have been moved to the Museum near the Lake shore, the TEE cars appear to have been moved to a fenced compound and are perpendicular to where they were and side by side now. Much of my info is from previous TO discussions and a Wikipedia on the area and the predecessor RR.

... I labeled it as a TEE car from another TO post, but really don't understand what the proper description is.:

https://pbase.com/clivew/image/135281588



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/20 08:29 by TCnR.






Date: 01/11/20 21:03
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: eminence_grise

I saw this equipment at North Bay also, some years ago. I also heard that some of the Northlander equipment  had been sent to Holland.

I remember that the controls in the cab-control coach had been deactivated when it was decided the train would not be operated in push-pull mode in Canada.



Date: 01/12/20 04:52
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: ghCBNS

Yes....when the CTC (Canadian Transport Commission) ruled the Cab Car could not lead....the train would come down the west side of Lake Simcoe on the Newmarket Subdivision from Washago with a stop in Barrie. Loop through Union Station in Toronto and go back north on the Bala Subdivision direct to Washago up the east side of the Lake bypassing Barrie.

Timetable from Oct 1977. Note: the 'Northlander' was shown in the VIA Timetable but were entirely ONR trains. The overnight 'Northland' also shown in the timetable below were jointly operated VIA/ONR trains.




Date: 01/12/20 04:55
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: ghCBNS

Here's one of the F7's modified to operate with the Northlander.




Date: 01/12/20 06:06
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: DrawingroomA

Yes, the all first-class seating was popular with passengers. The compartments had six wide seats and the open saloon had 2+1 seating. The dining car provided reasonably-priced meals. I enjoyed many trips on this train.

The cost of staffing this train was considerable.  This three-car train had a conductor and two trainmen on the Toronto-North Bay CNR portion. I don't recall if there were so many on the ONR tracks. The dining car section of the middle coach had a cook and two servers. On at last some runs there was an additional attendant who provided at-seat service.

With such limited capacity, two train-sets would have to be operated at busy times.



Date: 01/12/20 08:20
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: joemvcnj

That trip is only possible today on ON buses. There is no way I will ride one from Toronto to Cochrane. 



Date: 01/12/20 14:00
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: feclark

Phil,
I can say with confidence this equipment was in service by mid-June 1977, when I shot it several times on a two-week trip to Toronto.
Fred

eminence_grise Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For many years, Belleville ON. , a division point
> east of Toronto on CN's Toronto-Montreal main line
> sponsored a railway themed event which culminated
> in a steam excursions from Toronto behind CN 6218
> and later 6060, with several shorter excursions
> for students and service clubs.  Some years,
> railway displays were included. 1978 was such a
> year.
>
> I'm thinking the "Northlander" was very recently
> imported from Europe when it was displayed at
> Belleville in May 1978. I'm not sure if this was a
> standard consist, or shortened for display
> purposes.
>
> The European locomotives were not used very long
> in service, soon replaced with modified FP7a's. 
> The passenger cars proved popular with travellers
> as at least some had compartments.
>
> The European locomotives were scrapped, but the
> cars returned to Europe.



Date: 01/12/20 17:54
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: gaspeamtrak

Same here no way on a bus!!! :(:(:(

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That trip is only possible today on ON buses.
> There is no way I will ride one from Toronto to
> Cochrane. 



Date: 01/12/20 18:16
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: gaspeamtrak

I did the trip some time in the 1980's with my Dad and two nephews.
We went up on #99 "The Northland" . We had a bedroom. I slept on the bottom with one nephew and my dad slept on the top with the other one..
It was in February and bitterly cold and we were over two hours late but we had a ball !!!
We went to Kapuskasing and spent the night in a motel so we could ride "the Northlander " back to Toronto.
It was so cold when we left the following morning at 05:30 on a bus which had been running all night because it was so cold -40 F.
We caught the "Northlander" at "Porquis jct. I think?
. The food that came out  of that kitchen was like we had a full diner !!!
I would do that trip in a heart beat if those two trains were still running today..
Sorry for rambling on.......:):):)

ghCBNS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes....when the CTC (Canadian Transport
> Commission) ruled the Cab Car could not
> lead....the train would come down the west side of
> Lake Simcoe on the Newmarket Subdivision from
> Washago with a stop in Barrie. Loop through Union
> Station in Toronto and go back north on the Bala
> Subdivision direct to Washago up the east side of
> the Lake bypassing Barrie.
>
> Timetable from Oct 1977. Note: the 'Northlander'
> was shown in the VIA Timetable but were entirely
> ONR trains. The overnight 'Northland' also shown
> in the timetable below were jointly operated
> VIA/ONR trains.



Date: 01/12/20 18:37
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: moonliter

TCnR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've never been able to figure out this set up.
> There were a couple of boarded up cars sitting in
> North Bay a few years ago. I'm wondering if your
> Photo #2 shows the opposite end of the display
> train.

Yes, what you saw in North Bay are the same cars in Phil's 2nd photo.  What is missing is the original power car and the coach with 2-1 seating.  

> My files are at a different location but I do have
> a PBase Link to one of my photos, I labeled it as
> a TEE car from another TO post, but really don't
> understand what the proper description is.:

I think labeling your photos "TEE" train is appropriate.  There were other TEE trains from different countries but the sets that operated on the ONR were jointly build by the Netherlands (engines) and Switzerland (rolling stock).  The service started operating between Amsterdam - Paris "Étoile du Nord" and Amsterdam - Zurich  "Edelweiss" in June of 1957.  

A group in the Netherlands repatriated 5 pieces of the Northlander with the intentions of restoring them.  I happened to see them parked in a coach yard in Amsterdam (2015) but not much was being done.  Later I asked about their status at the Dutch Railway Museum but did not receive a positive answer.  Hopefully these cars do find a good home at fabulous railway museum in Utrecht.  

Fred Clark made mention that he took photos of the train in the summer of 1977 which is true as the new service was introduced on June 9th, 1977.

I was on one trip where the train was operated from the control cab.  This was on an excursion over the ONR line(s) back in November of 1977.  The control cab was used on the Elk Lake sub, over the line to Kirland Lake and other mine spurs that were included on this fan trip.

Gerry Gaugl
Ottawa ON

Photos 1 & 2:  Sitting in a compartment on my way to Berlin I was caught off guard when I saw these ONR coaches in the Netherlands.  About three weeks later I return to Amsterdam and waited for a local train (the older trainsets had windows that opened) and shot a few more photos of the cars.  The car in ONR colours was blocked by another cut of cars.  Sept & Oct 2015.

Photos 3 & 4:  The 1st ONR timetable featuring the "Northlander".   June 9th, 1977

Photos 5 & 6:  A Northlander flyer.  No date but was included with the Rail Services timetable.

Photo 7:  Control cab leading over the Elk Lake sub.  November 12, 1977.


 








Date: 01/12/20 18:41
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: moonliter

Photo 4, 5 & 6








Date: 01/12/20 18:43
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: moonliter

Photo 7




Date: 01/13/20 08:33
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: TCnR

Just a Monday morning heads up for anybody following the thread or monitoring the 'recent' list that I retrieved my North Bay photos and posted them above. These appear to be from 2011 and the display in North Bay has since improved.
Happy Monday.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/20 08:34 by TCnR.



Date: 01/13/20 12:41
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: SD45X

2018 had everything packed up behind a fence except the steam engine. F Unit was in the yard between the depot and ONR shops. Forget the shortline name, no notes with me.








Date: 01/13/20 13:00
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: TCnR

Looking at Google satellite photos they've built some track, or layed out some ties anyways, and moved the CP caboose to a new location. Oh and painted the CP caboose a greenish color. Comparing my 2011 and the posted 2018 photos of the steam engine there's not much change except moving them around and installing a really nice looking green lawn area. The whole area has been substantially changed from the time of my visit where it was clearly under construction and having track removed.

Google has a label on the map that says: Heritage Railway and Carousel Company. There's a couple of roundish structures over to the west a bit, near the caboose, suppose that's what going on. The caboose could be the entrance or the ticket booth.

Some info in this post, check out the photo at the end of the post:

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?15,4896090,4896591#msg-4896591
Date: 11/04/19 06:48
ONR shop, North Bay
Author: briancdn



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/20 13:02 by TCnR.



Date: 01/13/20 13:21
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: TCnR

Ok, one more layer of the onion, Googled Heritage Railway and Carousel Company and found their website, explains the dogbone track:

https://heritagetrainandcarousel.weebly.com/

Would think the TEE train and the Steam Engine would be heading for the North Bay Railway building for display. Their website:

https://www.northbaymuseum.com/




Date: 01/13/20 14:41
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: SD45X

Couldn't find the rest of my pics. Think the caboose was the"depot" for the train ride. 



Date: 01/13/20 19:01
Re: ONR Northlander display 1978.
Author: 3rdswitch

Those are the beefiest heavy duty wheel stops I have ever seen. Looks like they used O gauge wheel stops on HO gauge track!
JB



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