Canadian Railroads > CN statement on service between Williams Lake and Squamish

The e-mailed statement below by CN has been making the rounds today. I have trimmed out the identities but it is from a CN public affairs manager to the mayor of Williams Lake. The statement is written in the usual corporate-speak style and appears to be genuine.

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"At times of diminished customer demand, as is the case in the Williams Lake to Squamish corridor, it is normal for CN to make changes to our service.  Over the last few years of global market uncertainties, this corridor has been impacted by curtailments and closures at our customers’ facilities.  Many of our customers employees have been impacted, some to the point of job losses.  On the heels of another round of customer curtailments and closures, it is no longer feasible for CN to maintain the current service profile in the area.

"Effective April 3 - 8, 2020, and in conjunction with our employees’ change of card process, CN will suspend train service between Williams Lake and Squamish, British Columbia (BC).  The remaining customers on this corridor will now see their traffic routed via the Prince George - Kamloops – Vancouver corridor. We advised all the affected customers of this change in advance.

"This is not a decision we have taken lightly.  While we are sympathetic to the disruption of this change on the lives of our employees, particularly in the current environment, these employees may have an opportunity to remain with CN in other locations.  Based on collective bargaining agreements and depending on employee seniority, they may elect to work at other CN locations such as Quesnel, Williams Lake, Prince George, and other locations in Northern BC.

"In fact, at some of these locations and if customer demand remains at current levels, these employees may be quickly redeployed as there is a shortage of personnel. It is never easy to make these kinds of changes. However we are proud of our 100 years of providing rewarding careers to more than 2,000 railroaders in the province.

"CN recognizes and understands that these are unprecedented times and want to reaffirm that we are focused on the health and safety of our employees, the essential movement of critical supplies for all Canadians, and a safe and reliable service for our customers."
 

How will Exeter be switched?

Mike Root
Madras, OR

I don't think much switching is needed in Exeter (100 Mile House) either the mills are shutdown or product goes by truck. Lumber industry is really suffering.
Doug

shortlineboss Wrote:
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> How will Exeter be switched?

Canada was accussed of dumping lumber on the US years ago

Canada sends lumber to the U.S. because the U.S. does not have enough domestic suppy to meet its needs. China & Russia are not cost effective to fill the gap.
The statement was pushed further by a certain guy who thought Covid 19 was a hoax by the Democrats.

Mike Bannon
St Catharines, ON

Ummmm, What day was this posted??

DaveL

What is the "change of card process" the article refers to?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/20 13:22 by ble692.

ble692 Wrote:
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> What is the "change of card process" the article
> refers to?

On most railways in Canada, twice a year, all the jobs on a seniority district are put up for bid. The "card" refers to the working timetable (timecard) which used to be re-issued at the spring and fall time change. All railways handled this process differently. On CP , I had to bid twice a year to continue to hold my work of preference . On CN, running trades (operating employees) remained incumbant with conditions (can be bumped in a seniority move by another employee facing layoff). However, "change of card" still had relevence as the date an employee could elect to change jobs within the terminal or relocate to another terminal within the seniority district. On CP, a running trades employee was granted one move between changes of card, unless bumped by a seniority move.

Relocating as a result of a "change of card" bid is voluntary, hence the railway doesn't have to pay relocation expenses, also "suspension of service" is not closure or abandonment, and likewise there are no relocation expenses.

CP left employees on the Kettle Valley Division in the lurch for more than two years in the early 1960's. 

Sounds like  this effectively kills service into N. Vancouver via the old BCR?.  It's been a long time since I was there but if I remember there was not a lot lumber business from Squamish to N Vancouver was there?   Sure was a beautiful ride on that route.

There always seems to be something  bad is going to happen when a railroad buys another.  Trains get sent different ways , routes abandoned since they were competition.  If I was the BC gov't I would get that line back.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/20 14:45 by tomstp.

I hope the government of BC does not let this happen.  They used to own this railroad, if my understanding of its history is correct.  The track should be leased to a shortline.  And the shortline will, like most of them, magically recover all the business that CN did not want to bother with.  

Letting this rail asset disappear would be a tragedy.  It has been noted in other threads that similar "suspension" of service has happened in the U.S. and the regions are thus economically poorer.  

tomstp Wrote:
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> Sounds like  this effectively kills service into
> N. Vancouver via the old BCR?.  It's been a long
> time since I was there but if I remember there was
> not a lot lumber business from Squamish to N
> Vancouver was there?   Sure was a beautiful ride
> on that route.

There will still be a North Vancouver-Squamish local to service the Squamish business.

MEKoch Wrote:
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> I hope the government of BC does not let this
> happen.  They used to own this railroad, if my
> understanding of its history is correct.  The
> track should be leased to a shortline.  And the
> shortline will, like most of them, magically
> recover all the business that CN did not want to
> bother with.  

The business is lumber and the mills are going out of business. No shortline can magically create that business, or undo the damage to the forests caused by pine beetle kill and wildfires, or prevent the never-ending countervailing duties that the U. S. government slaps on B.C. softwood lumber whenever produers in the southeastern states are feeling the competitive pinch.

The simple fact is that there are more than 250 miles of railway between Williams Lake and Squamish without business, and that is hardly a recipe for shortline success.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/20 16:42 by railsmith.

railsmith Wrote:


>
> The business is lumber and the mills are going out
> of business. No shortline can magically create
> that business, or undo the damage to the forests
> caused by pine beetle kill and wildfires, or
> prevent the never-ending countervailing duties
> that the U. S. government slaps on B.C. softwood
> lumber whenever produers in the southeastern
> states are feeling the competitive pinch.

The lumber business is highly political in BC.  As the lumber industry recovers, I've seen closed mills re-open after they were declared gone forever. Sometimes such a move was to get rid of the union (IWA and now USWA) which can take place with a three year closure.

When the Province was proposing the sale of BC Rail, public hearings were held by the Ministry of Municiplal Affairs and it was a very limited number of people who were asked to attend. Certainly not the mill workers but the mill owners complained they were not invited to attend. Instead mayors and councils were invited to attend brief meetings with little opportunity to express the concerns of their constituants.

Most of BC is "Crown Land" (undeeded land). The lumber companies obtain "tree farm licences" giving them exclusive cutting rights on Crown Land. These licences are very valuable and it not unusual for one lumber company to take over another company purely to obtain more tree farm licences.

There are mills at Exeter, Chasm(closed) and Lillooet (?) on the line portion under suspension. Could CN be seeking a subsidy to continue to operate this section of the line?

Call me cynical, but 40 years of living in BC had me see many scenarios play out.
>
> The simple fact is that there are more than 250
> miles of railway between Williams Lake and
> Squamish without business, and that is hardly a
> recipe for shortline success.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/20 21:39 by eminence_grise.

eminence_grise Wrote:
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> On most railways in Canada, twice a year, all the jobs on a seniority district are put up for bid.

Thank you for the explanation. In the US we call them "Sadie Hawkins Days" (or week/weeks as the case may be). Depending on where you are at, it could happen 2 or 3 or even 4 times per year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/20 18:20 by ble692.

eminence_grise Wrote:
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> There are mills at Exeter, Chasm(closed) and
> Lillooet (?) on the line portion under suspension.
> Could CN be seeking a subsidy to continue to
> operate this section of the line?
>
> Call me cynical, but 40 years of living in BC had
> me see many scenarios play out.

Plenty of information here. Some closures at Exeter (100 Mile) in this article as of mid-2019.  The former NDP forestry critic, who is now mayor of Quesnel, cites a long-term contraction in the forest industry that will last for decades.  https://www.lillooetnews.net/year-in-review-sawmill-closures-hurt-b-c-communities-1.24040975
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/20 03:32 by railsmith.

Is the BC route that is being suspended faster from Prince George to Vancouver that via the CN line further east?

Also, is the CN route all CTC or does it also use track warrants?

Thank you in advance.

BC rail sale was crooked in the 1st place

PRR_4859 Wrote:
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> Is the BC route that is being suspended faster
> from Prince George to Vancouver that via the CN
> line further east?
>
> Also, is the CN route all CTC or does it also use
> track warrants?
>
> Thank you in advance.

The CN route from Prince George to Vancouver via Kamloops is all CTC. CN runs a daily train (354-355) between PG and Vancouver.

I don't think it is significantly slower even though longer. Despite needing more crew changes than the BC Rail route to reach CN's main yard in the Vancouver area (Thornton yard in Surrey), it is more economical to run owing to the relative absence of grades and hence fuel-efficiency. From the Alberta border near Jasper all the way to Vancouver, the steepest grades are in the final few miles into/out of Vancouver (slightly less than 1% if I recall correctly), and that only affects traffic going/starting west of Thornton Yard.

IF the c.p. had taken this route over instead of the c.n., would there be a better chance of the line between williams lake and squamish remaining in service?

66

If ANY of the other interested bidders, including CP, BNSF, or Omnitrax would have been successful then the line would be staying open. CN has legitimate options to reroute the traffic. All the other interested bidders would’ve had no other option to move the traffic, unless they wanted to shorthaul themselves or pay CN to bridge the traffic back to their lines elsewhere. Even Omnitrax would’ve wanted to keep a connection to North Van to protect interchange to CP, BNSF, and UP (through BNSF haulage). Plus CN interchange at both Prince George and North Vancouver.

JLS

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