European Railroad Discussion > Things Ancient and Modern

Yesterday (Saturday) was a pretty awful day in London, grey for the most part and with a stiff breeze making it feel much colder than the nominal 12C would have you believe. I had a number of things to do around town but I still managed a couple of pictures, which coincidantally feature both the most modern and the oldest trains operating in and around London in 2011, the latter are also the oldest anywhere on the mainland (i.e. NOT the Isle of Wight) in day to day intensive service.

The most modern are the Bombardier built class 378s on the London Overground and the picture shows them on what is also a new railway, the rebuilt North London Line at Canonbury East Junction near Highbury and Islington. The two RH tracks, electrified with 25kV catenary are the east-west Stratford to Richmond line, which also carries a heavy freight traffic too, whilst the left hand tracks, electrified with the third rail are the cross river East London Line extension from Dalston Junction to Highbury which is scheduled to open in April. The line on the right, on which the track gang are working is the Canonbury spur, from Canonbury East Junction to Finsbury Park on the East Coast Mainline. The 378s are a little like surface underground trains, bags of standing space with longitudinal seating, and for the first time in Britain, full sized end of car connections.

And now the oldest - 51 years old this year - London Underground's A stock, built by Cravens of Sheffield, which operate all services on the sub-surface Metropolitan Line, the erstwhile Metropolitan Railway from Baker Street in Central London to Amersham and Chesham in rural Buckinghamshire, a distance of about 25 miles. Harrow-on-the-Hill is a crucial junction on the Met, it is also the start of the joint trackage with Chiltern Trains which extends to Amersham. Chiltern operate London Marylebone to Aylesbury, the Met too used to run to Aylesbury (and beyond), but that is another story altogether.

This A stock set is on the Uxbridge branch which dives under the Met Northbound Mainline and Chiltern North and Southbound tracks (the RH three in the picture). The Chiltern tracks are also electrified to provide maximum flexibility for London Underground.

Replacement stock is on the way, the new airconditioned S stock, but in the meantime the A stock continues to rattle, lurch and bounce alarmingly, especially on the so-called 'fast' services which are non-stop over the 7.5 miles from Finchley Road to Harrow.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/11 05:13 by 86235.

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Where the 378s are lacking is in the number of doors. They just have two double doors in 20m - an A stock driving car has two double door and a single in less then 20m and the trailers one more single door as well. The consequence for the 378s is that people still stay by the door and do not move down; partly because they are door-hanging, and partly because they have a justified fear of not making it off. Also means the key stations (Highbury and Islington for example) have 2 min dwell times in the peaks which plays havoc with the timetable, and the overall speed of the service.

The 378s are a perfect example of a new train being compromised by one key detail.

I think roling stock design is always a compromise, in the case of the 378s between seating and standing. Another set of doors would further reduce the number of seats. The fourth car seems to have helped matters in terms of timekeeping but in truth they are still full to bursting at rush hour. And one reason why people hang around the doors is that most stations are no further apart than tube stations, a minute or two.

The A stock is different in that respect, distances between stations are much greater, the fast Amersham and Chesham trains stop twice, at Wembley Park and Harrow on the Hill in the 15 miles between Finchley Road and Moor Park. It should be remembered that the A stock was regarded with horror by many Herts and Bucks commuters when it first appeared, they had been used to the stolid comfort of T stock and Dreadnought compartments, now they were expected to sit in an open saloon and, horror of horrors, strap hang! It is showing its age too, the ride, which was never very good, is pretty appalling and the interiors are very dated and a bit worn, despite the best endeavours of Neasden Depot. A nice touch is that each set has a transfer of the coat of arms of the old Metropolitan Railway Company behind the motorman's door, the units can only work on the former Met and around the Circle Line to Aldgate, they are too wide to fit round other bits of the Circle and District Lines.

For six months in 1978/79 I commuted from North Harrow to Stratford (in East London) on the Met, in those days the A stock was still in original condition, with the grey black and maroon moquette seat coverings, today purple seems all the rage.

I also took a photograph of a London Underground signal which, judging by its appearance may well date back to the rebuilding of Harrow-on-the-Hill in 1949. The feather on the top is lit if a diverging route (to the southbound fast line) is selected. Although the hardware remains quite ancient in places, control is centralised, the signalbox at Harrow on the Hill was closed a few years ago. The 30 is mph NOT kph.

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86235 Wrote:
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> Replacement stock is on the way, the new
> airconditioned S stock, but in the meantime the A
> stock continues to rattle, lurch and bounce
> alarmingly, especially on the so-called 'fast'
> services which are non-stop over the 7.5 miles
> from Finchley Road to Harrow.

Who is building the new stock? Presumably someone overseas?

No, Bombardier at Derby, same as the 378s



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/11 12:39 by 86235.

I never cease to marvel at the plethora of electric railway operations in and around London. I suppose some dedicated "juicefans" have ridden everything: Underground, inner suburban, outer suburban and the Corydon light rail, but it would take a while! My wife and I visited the area in 1993, and I still remember the Southern Electrics with their American interurban sounds.

Thanks very much for the great pictures - its always good to see both the Metropolitan and the North London lines. I was a daily Met traveller for ten years from 1960, and witnessed the transformation of the route.

It seems like only yesterday I first saw an A60 unit on test at Chalfont and Latimer in March 1961, so they have always seemed like really modern trains to me. The A stock didn't really come into service until the following year, when the new timetable was introduced, and it was another year or so before the Uxbridge line lost its red trains (O/P stock).

The A stock was always rough riding on account of the (supposedly low-maintenance) rubber suspension. I don't think the ride is any worse now than it was in the early 60s - indeed it was worse before the de-rating of the trains in the late 60's, before which they would rush through Neasden at 70mph! I also suspect the track is rather better now than it was.

Even in the old days there was plenty of standing in the peak hours - it was normal for each compartment to have six passengers seated each side, and a further six standing in the middle. A majority of trains were only 6 cars, so I guess the A stock did not reduce seating capacity significantly. I think there may be more complaints about the new S stock, which appears to have a more inner-suburban style of seating, with greater standing space.