European Railroad Discussion > European Vacation Train Questions

Wife and I will be traveling on several European train trips this summer.  We have a number of questions that perhaps TO members can help answer.
We are going from Paris to Copenhagen on Sunday May 31.  

Using the DB web site the best connections for us seem to be Thalys to Cologne, DB Intercity to Hamburg and DB ICE to Copenhagen.  That’s only two transfers, Cologne and Hamburg.  The Cologne stopover/transfer is 2 hours, Hamburg 15 minutes.

Questions:
 

• How much can one trust published On-Time performance?

• Is 15 minutes enough connection time in Hamburg?  If not, what is enough time for a DB transfer, 30 minutes, 60 minutes?

 

• How soon in advance should tickets be purchased, now or later?  Do trains typically sell out?

• It looks like I need to purchase Thalys tickets separate from DB tickets, true?

• Is 2nd Class Thalys OK, is 1st Class worth the extra cost?  How about DB 2nd vs. 1st Class?

• Are tickets purchased in Europe at the stations cheaper then over the Web?

• We plan a day trip from Paris to the Saarbrucken Area and return the same day via TGV and DB to Merzig, Germany.  Do we purchase TGV separate from DB?

• What’s a sufficient connection time from TGV to DB in Saarbrucken?

Any info, feedback or opinions are appreciated.

You might want to consider a pass that covers the countries you need. That way you can take any train you want without advance tickets. Most trains do not require reservations. (not sure about Thays). Most European trains run on time but there can of course be exceptions. And at times changing trains involves up the stairs (with luggage) and back down again. But if you don't have tickets for a specific train it won't matter. Just get on the next one that goes where you want to. Get the pass price from the Rail Europe web site and then figure out if it is significantly more than if you bought individually. I always think first class is worth it. Second is often very full. First is typically only full at "rush hour" when most business travelers are using the service.

Assuming the trains are on time, 15 minutes is enough for the Hamburg connection. The DB database will tell you what the transfer time is between platforms and your ticket will tell you the platforms of your connecting trains, so you can plan the transfer in advance. There are elevators and escalators between the overhead concourse and the platforms. I'm attaching a view of the Hamburg station interior last October, taken from the north concourse, looking south. You'll see the similar concourse at the south end and the stairs/escalators down to the platforms. 

Try to determine whether the Hamburg-Copenhagen ICE train originates at Hamburg or if it is a through train from Berlin. The ICE trains from Berlin can be formed of two four-car diesel-multiple-units, which split at Hamburg. One section reverses and leaves for Copenhagen via Luebeck, the other continues northward to the border with mainland Denmark.

A word of advice if you book online tickets via the DB website, as I did last fall. To prove your identity when you show the ticket to the conductor, you must show valid ID. For North Americans, a passport does not suffice -- you'll need a credit card for this. However, it does not need to be the credit card you paid with. During the online booking process, you can enter a different credit card number for ID purposes from the one you are paying with.

Why does this matter? Because your ticket is not valid without that specific ID credit card. I didn't think this through when I booked online and used my "paying" credit card also as my ID credit card. If I had lost that card before my rail travel, I would have been screwed. I should have used one of my secondary credit cards, which I only use at the stores that issued them, as my ID card and then put it away with my passport and tickets right after booking. Much less chance of losing it in the meantime that way.

On board the two ICE trains I rode with online tickets, the conductor took the ticket (printed on ordinary letter paper) and asked for the ID credit card, which was then swiped through a hand-held card reader. So, from my experience, this requirement for ID is taken seriously.

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Here are possible trains sets (of the many types available) for your journey:
1) Thalys-PBKA (TGV DC locomotives with traditional Réseau type trailers) in Cologne, Germany. Owned mostly by SNCF, operated by Thalys.

2) DB ICE2 unit arriving also to Cologne, Germany 

3) DB owned DSB leased ICE-TD seen boarding at Copenhagen Central, Denmark. One of the units is painted to DSB traditional silver-dark blue instead of the German DB ICE scheme. 

All pictures by Ilkka.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/15 03:26 by McKey.

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Disclaimer: Although I work for DB, the opinions presented here are my own and I have tried to make them as objective as possible.



prech786 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wife and I will be traveling on several European
> train trips this summer.  We have a number of
> questions that perhaps TO members can help
> answer.
> We are going from Paris to Copenhagen on Sunday
> May 31.  
>
> Using the DB web site the best connections for us
> seem to be Thalys to Cologne, DB Intercity to
> Hamburg and DB ICE to Copenhagen.  That’s only
> two transfers, Cologne and Hamburg.  The Cologne
> stopover/transfer is 2 hours, Hamburg 15 minutes.
>


You might want to consider the attached alternative connection, which, although slightly slower, provides better connecting times. Also, Thalys is a subsidiary of the French and Belgian railways that uses an isolated, airline-style pricing system, which means that no through ticketing is offered with DB and thus the combined price of Thalys + DB can often be quite high (though Thalys does offer a small number of heavily-discounted tickets). Looking at the SNCF website, you'd be paying nearly 200 EUR for the trip via Cologne. If you go with the route via Karlsruhe, it can be had at the moment for about 150 EUR.


> Questions:
>  
> [*]How much can one trust published On-Time
> performance?[/*]

Generally pretty well. In January DB's long-distance trains were 93% on time (with "on time" meaning less than 15 minutes late).


> [*]Is 15 minutes enough connection time in
> Hamburg?  If not, what is enough time for a DB
> transfer, 30 minutes, 60 minutes?[/*]  

15 minutes is usually fine, but when connecting to the last train of the day (as you would be in Hamburg) it is somewhat risky. As long as the arriving and departing trains were booked as one ticket, you are covered by the European passenger bill of rights, which means that DB will have to pay for a hotel if they can't bring you to your destination on the same day. However, even if the costs were covered, this would obviously be a major inconvenience, so you might want to look at planning more buffer time into your connection at Hamburg.


> [*]How soon in advance should tickets be
> purchased, now or later?  Do trains typically
> sell out?[/*]

Both Thalys and the TGV between France and Germany require reservations, whereas the ICE does not, meaning if you have a normal price ticket (i.e. not a discounted fare) you can use it on any ICE on that line. However, discounted tickets are only valid for specific ICE trains, and the number of discounted fares available per train is limited. So it is recommended that you book as early as possible to get the best fares.


> [*]It looks like I need to purchase Thalys tickets
> separate from DB tickets, true?[/*]

Yes, see above. Thalys and DB fares cannot be booked together (some websites seem to offer this, but they are really just automating separate bookings of both, which may be more convenient but will not be of any benefit price-wise and in legal terms are still considered separate bookings).


> [*]Is 2nd Class Thalys OK, is 1st Class worth the
> extra cost?  How about DB 2nd vs. 1st Class?[/*]

2nd class is OK on Thalys and TGV, and since both are all-reserved you won't have to worry about not getting a seat. In 1st class on both seating is 2+1 seating rather than 2+2 and a meal is included as well as newspapers, access to the station lounges, etc. More info can be found on the services' respective websites.

2nd class on DB is also OK and 1st class is also 2+1 rather than 2+2, and generally there is a bit more space. However, since trains are not reservation-compulsory, a seat reservation (which costs extra) is recommended to ensure that you get a seat and can sit together with others in your travelling party, regardless of whether you're in 1st or 2nd class. With a 1st class ticket you also have access to the DB Lounges at most major stations. Also, WiFi is available at no extra charge on DB trains in first class but charges a fee in 2nd (unless you are a T-Mobile Hotspot customer).


> [*]Are tickets purchased in Europe at the stations
> cheaper then over the Web?[/*]

The cheapest tickets are generally available on each operator's website, though as noted above you cannot buy the tickets for this journey with a single booking online unfortunately. For that you would need to contact a travel agent (PM me for recommendations). Also as noted above, the cheapest tickets sell out quickly, so if you wait until you're here to buy in a station (which really offers no advantage) you'll likely wind up paying full-fare.


> [*]We plan a day trip from Paris to the
> Saarbrucken Area and return the same day via TGV
> and DB to Merzig, Germany.  Do we purchase TGV
> separate from DB?[/*]

As long as you plan to take one of the direct TGVs between Paris and Saarbrucken, you can do this in a single booking on the bahn.com website. You'll need to play around with the departure and arrival times a bit, but as long as it's one of those trains it will work just fine and be the cheapest option (if you book ahead, it's as little as 29 EUR per person each way). Prices for connections using other TGV trains (for example with train changes in Metz) will not be shown.


> [*]What’s a sufficient connection time from TGV
> to DB in Saarbrucken?[/*]

Don't worry about that connection; it will often be held, but even if it's not, there's a regional train on that line every 20 or 30 minutes and your ticket is valid for all of them. Be more concerned about the reverse direction, because an "important" train like the TGV is unlikely to wait for the dinky regional train and obviously the TGV runs less often. For that one I would plan 20 minutes just to be safe.

> Any info, feedback or opinions are appreciated.

Some additional notes:

• A railpass will only be of limited value for the France -> Germany part of the trip, as a reservation supplement is required to use Thalys or the TGV.
• The ride from Hamburg to Copenhagen is fantastic and is one of only two year-round railferry operations in Europe (i.e. the train drives onto the ferry for the Fehmarnbelt crossing; passengers must leave the train and head up to the upper decks during the crossing). However, since the train has to fit on the ferry, it is short and capacity is limited, and as such the trains have a propensity to get *very* full. I would strongly recommend a seat reservation at least on this part of the journey! (In fact, reservations will be compulsory on these trains beginning in mid-June to alleviate the problem).
• The route via Cologne will take you through the spectacular Liege Central Station. Scenery-wise the two routes are comparable, though I'd give the nod to the route via Karlsruhe for the idyllic emptiness of the Alsace region and the beautiful ride on the high-speed line between Fulda and Hannover.

If you have further questions, don't hesitate to ask.

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When did the rules change requiring train passengers to leave the train when crossing the Fehmarn Belt on the train ferry?   I can remember riding this ferry several times on train journeys between Germany and Denmark and passengers were allowed to stay on the train carriages during the journey, or go upstairs in the ferry, at their leisure.

chakk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When did the rules change requiring train
> passengers to leave the train when crossing the
> Fehmarn Belt on the train ferry?   I can
> remember riding this ferry several times on train
> journeys between Germany and Denmark and
> passengers were allowed to stay on the train
> carriages during the journey, or go upstairs in
> the ferry, at their leisure.

The rules changed sometime within the last five years or so; I am unsure of the exact year. I, too, remember taking this line in 2007 and being given the option of staying on the train or going up on deck (I chose the latter).

Note that the rule does not apply to the seasonal Berlin - Malmö sleeper during its overnight ferry crossing.