European Railroad Discussion > Estonia: Chinese Kids on the Block

We all are well aware of the mighty GE C30-7ais and C36-7ais imported to Estonia in early 2000s to fix the post Soviet capacity deficiency in the poor country. This was achieved by Ed Burkhard, and the EVR Cargo (then EVR) still carries Wisconsin Central Maroon-Yleew colors, quite well suited for the Estonian RR environment. C30-7ais were all retired by 2013 and now I've seen a diminishing number of _active_ C36-7ai locos. They handle mainly the road traffic, something where their huge power excels on the Estonian flat country. Earlier they were also used for switching and local moves, something where they proved unsatisfactory and fuel hogs. 

A few pictures of the C36-7ai and C30-7ai. C36 can be easily distinguished from the hump (strangely similar to ET44AC, but at the other end of the nose).  

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Next evolution phase for the switching and humping plus local moves came in the form of ex. Soviet swithers, some models of which are extremely poor and some simply excel in all respects. You can find numerous interesting Estonian ex. Soviet larger and smaller (plus one huge) switcher types in 4rail.net Estonian section ( http://www.4rail.net/reference_estonia_gallery2_locosdiesel.php ) ( http://www.4rail.net/reference_estonia_locos_diesel1.php ) , but for this article let's simplify the story so that the 1970s ChME3s were found extremely poor and mostly mothballed. The mostly 1980s various Tem2 subtypes in contrast were rebuilt, found extremely useful and bought by numerous bigger and smaller companies. They are now in active use and more seem to appear each year, probably bought from Russia. If you think Tem2 looks vaguely familiar, you have to remember that its roots go to WW2 and the Alco RSDs imported to Russia / manufactured there.

First below a typical ChME3 and below it some of the Tem2s at work.  

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EVR (Cargo) also mothballed their ChME3 switchers and used C30/C36s instead. Until fuel economy forced to find better alternatives for lighter duty. Big news for 2011-12 were that Chinese CNR was importing 13 units for the EVR Cargo to use in Estonia. First unit was even found in the destination. Then, as soon as it appeared, nothing could anymore be found. Where were the 13 locomotives? 

Meanwhile the Tem-Tmh, Czech designed and Russian built, Caterpillar engined, truly international new road switcher type seemed to be gaining fast ground in all Baltic countries. These started spreading and now where ever I go, there are always one or more to be seen. I estimate for Baltic states (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania) ~200 of these and very similar looking (except for bogies) ChME3-M have been built for use.

This was until a couple of weeks ago, when on a railfanning tour I found two examples of the Chinese Chem3 copy DF7G-E locomotives (this is supposed to be a copy of the original ChME3, not the latest ChME3-M). 

First pictures of the Tem-Tmh (Tem-Tmx in Cyrillics if you look carefully) and then DF7G-E 002 sitting in Tallinn, Estonia main yard waiting for work. It appeared a little later that the crews preferred much better driving aroudn with their Tem-Tmhs whcih were busy all around. Still, the CNR built DF7G-E has been spotted ready to be used and from the streaks of dirt has also been in use!  



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/15 00:51 by McKey.

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A few hours later we found DF7G-E #001 in Tapa, waiting for switching assignments, with one of the crew sitiing inside, but engine turned off. As technical facts are yet to be resolved let's look at one other mystery: on the DF7G-E there is a small text below the type marking on the sides of the cab "BRE Estonia Oü". From the Nordic customs this would signify the ownership as this company and the unit being only leased to EVR Cargo. When digging up on the backgound of the BRE Estonia, not much useful was found. One of the directories gave out a warning that company had lots of unpaid bills and shoudl be sold anything only by cash transaction in exchange for goods and services. But this might be typical for fast growing startups in the Baltics. Maybe this company is owned by CNR so they could start their leasing operation in Europe?

Some more pictures. Look how small and low the walkway handrails are compared with any Western locomotive! Other thant that everything looks quite modern excepth for the ChME3 originating frame. They even ditched the ChME3 unusual truck at the CNR and used the standard design instead. I suppose that with time there will be more info on the DF7G-Es. One of the challenges is that almost all older personnel speaks only "language of the railroads" in Estonia...can you guess what that is? So I need to find someone of the younger generation to talk effectively.

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One more cab views from outside. The ciustom still seems to be to keep the engineer sitting inside even though there is nothing going on at the moment. This unit was waiting for assignments next to Tapa train tower, so you might expect that would be much nicer environment when the there is nothing to do. Yet, old customs change slowly. 

Could anyone translate to me what the CNR builders plate says? Sorry about a poor resolution.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/15 01:15 by McKey.

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Reading years from these plates it appears that #001 was manufactured in 2012 and #002 only in 2014.

Absolutely fascinating photos and info; I am going to pay lots more attention to this discussion.  Is there much of a security problem fanning overseas?  Thanks for the great posting.

Rich

Thanks!  Been a lot of effort to collect all these so I'm happy I can publish them here. 

No problem fanning, but all the major rail yards are surrounded by Nato wire with razor blades, to the annouance of those who wish to have a good shot. In Estonia since most personnel only speaks "language of the railroads" (guess what that is ;) , and I don't, it mights sometimes be hard to talk with them. Except with younger generation, which are mostly just like anyone from West (they actually are now there too) and can talk at least one other language Estonia, Finnish, Swedish, German and/or English (not the "Railroad language"). 

Seventyfive Wrote:
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> Absolutely fascinating photos and info; I am going
> to pay lots more attention to this discussion.
>  Is there much of a security problem fanning
> overseas?  Thanks for the great posting.
>
> Rich

Great photos and a good look at this operation; thanks!

Andy

Glad you liked it!

AndyBrown Wrote:
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> Great photos and a good look at this operation;
> thanks!
>
> Andy

"Railroad Language" = Russian. Come on you can say it, without adding what basically amounts to Russophobic overtones to your post.....

As for the subject at hand, I'm surprised regarding the ChME-3 switchers. These are reliable and omnipresent in other ex-USSR states. In fact, all Czech-made motive power has been considered reliable.

It adds to the notion that Estonian motive power issues were due to post-Soviet economic chaos and downturn of the 1990s when maintenance went to hell,rather than any "Soviet legacy".

If anything, railroad equipment was relatively well maintained in Soviet days....

Right, "railroad language" is Russian ;)   in other words railroaders to these many times conquered countries came from mother Russia, kept to themselves and never learned local languages...in rough generalization. Must have been so that in Soviet Union satellite countries were seen somewhat unreliable, and as railroads were a strategic asset, it could not be given to uncertain hands. Today I see little problems with different nationals in say Estonia. And younger generation = Estonian and Russian speaking is definiotely openminded and willing to learn new things from railfans who visit their location.

I've noticed the same variation about the ChME3 as you. Could it be so that the ChME3s in Russia are of newer breed with their large C36 style cabinets? Definitely those machines (built without the cabinet) were greatly disliked in all Baltic countries. Currently I know of only one unit (this might not be all) that is still running, maybe: Edelraudtee used actively two in Tallinn, Estonia for years and one seemed to have survived all the way to 2014. The funny thing a few years ago was that they obviously could not turn the engine off, so it was always running when visiting Talliinn Edelraudtee depot...

I don't know about Soviet maintenance, it might have been different in Ukraine area where you lived. All the pictures I see from nearby Soviet areas that period show neglected and rusty old contraptions. Nobody owned them so I suppose nobody really cared what happened to them. This went on more or less until around 200-2005 whern things finally started to turn for better. Today, the Russian rolling stock I see is all well maintained, cared for and often relatively new too. Even the buckets don't look like they were filled by dipping them into oil well anymore, quite contrary. The look like they would be from any Western country (except for types).  

chs7-321 Wrote:
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> "Railroad Language" = Russian. Come on you can
> say it, without adding what basically amounts to
> Russophobic overtones to your post.....
>
> As for the subject at hand, I'm surprised
> regarding the ChME-3 switchers. These are
> reliable and omnipresent in other ex-USSR states.
> In fact, all Czech-made motive power has been
> considered reliable.
>
> It adds to the notion that Estonian motive power
> issues were due to post-Soviet economic chaos and
> downturn of the 1990s when maintenance went to
> hell,rather than any "Soviet legacy".
>
> If anything, railroad equipment was relatively
> well maintained in Soviet days....

Below an RzD ChME3 from StP, this is the type with a cabinet. Since it is Russia, not Soviet Union, this looks tip top shaped. But is this T-model newer than the Baltic ones?

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Great photos,very interesting info! Thanks for sharing... :D

Estonia was NOT a Soviet Union "satellite country"....it was part of the Soviet Union.   Everyone that moved between the 15 republics was moving within ONE country.   The primary language of that country was Russian.....I'm pretty sure that most ethnic Russians who wound up in Estonia, Armenia, or Tadjikistan did pick up the local languages, at least a little (maybe not enough to converse with foreigners).

By the way, with the amount of time you seem to spent in ex-Soviet states, I'm surprised you still didn't pick up any Russian.  Come on, it's not that hard.  Easier than, say, Finnish!!  :-P  And it's DEFINITELY not a language that one needs to be embarassed about!!!

As for maintenance, pictures that I have seen from the 1970s and early 80s, show a lot of relatively well-maintained rolling stock.  Central Asian republics might have been different.  But the Baltics would have certainly been up there......the three Baltic republics had the highest standard of living in the country!

Rust starts to appear from mid-80s, and becomes common after the collapse of the USSR in late 1991, and the economic downturn that followed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/15 10:04 by chs7-321.

Well, the Estonians were run over by tanks at the end of the WW2, so they were by no means happy part of the larger union, more like a satellite or colony to be exploited. As a result it is today a punishable crime to be a communist in Estonia, so much has still stayed from the feeling about "good ol times". I saw with my own eyes how everything had decayed in 1970s and 1980s, and only few of the elite could travel.

Yes, cyrillic alphabet is tough. I've started to learn Russian a couple of times earlier but it always ends up to not having Russian contacts or anything worthy to do with the language. But maybe you could write on Russian trains for the rest of us? Actually I'm at the moment decyphering some cyrillics to understandable English from the picture of a dirty tank wagon (one of the few remaining dirty ones)...not an easy task with so many longish named private companies in Russia.

By the way, Baltic countries are only ex. Soviet states, now happy within European Union family, and NATO forces guaranteeing their independence. Im intrigued to see their change to worthy Western countries, industrious people working their way forward, countries developing much by the year, things going forward fast. The desolate Soviet is hardly any more visible in Estonia, others are following. Baltic states own national languages have been restored and Russian speaking is now only secondary, if seen at all. Russians who came in during the Soviet time are given fairly local nationality, provided they can speak local language too.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/15 10:38 by McKey.

From having take one year of Russion in university: each Cyrillic character has always the same sound, and each sound is represented by a unique letter. It is very hard to mis-spell a Russian word, as the language is phoentic. No "two", "too", and "to" in Russian.

That's the good news. The bad news is that Russian in an inflected language, like Latin. Word endings determine gender, case, or tense. Oh, and most of the verbs are irregiular - they must be memorized!

McKey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, the Estonians were run over by tanks at the
> end of the WW2, so they were by no means happy
> part of the larger union, more like a satellite or
> colony to be exploited.

I don't think anyone was happy to be in that union by the end.....hence why it no longer exists.   But again, I have to point out to the standards of living in the Baltic republics versus the the rest of the country......

As a result it is today a
> punishable crime to be a communist in Estonia, so
> much has still stayed from the feeling about "good
> ol times".

And maybe if the rest of the former republics followed (Russia and Ukraine, especially), we would not be in today's situation....

I saw with my own eyes how everything
> had decayed in 1970s and 1980s, and only few of
> the elite could travel.

John, I apologize, but this is very false.  In the 70s and 80s, almost everyone travelled if they wanted to (domestically that is).   The many 20+ car night trains were not exactly running empty.....


 Baltic states own national languages
> have been restored and Russian speaking is now
> only secondary, if seen at all. Russians who came
> in during the Soviet time are given fairly local
> nationality, provided they can speak local
> language too.

1) From what I remember during my visit to Lithuania in 1988, Lithuanian predominated Russian.  I was young, so was very apolitical, and my only thought was that, even though I knew about each republic having its own language, it was still slightly annoying to go to another part of one's country, and not being able to read many signs.....

2) But it was actually Lithuania that, in 1991-2, did the correct thing and granted citizenship to ALL who resided on its territory at the time of independence.   Latvia (and somewhat Estonia) chose to go with the "resident alien" and "proof of residence pre-1940" nonsense....and got a lot of alienated people in return.  People, many of whom after going through the citizenship process, took advantage of the EU laws, and fled Latvia to other parts of Europe.....