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European Railroad Discussion > [AT] Locomotive Order of Europe for 2016Date: 12/31/15 06:34 [AT] Locomotive Order of Europe for 2016 Author: McKey Austrian state railways ÖBB set out a tender in October asking for 200 new freight locomotives, a great number of which are hybrid locomotives. Americans don't laught...this will be the largest freight locomotive order in Europe for 2016 ;) While the tender itself asks for what is inevitable change in the form of electric + diesel hybrid models, much questioning on active train forums have been on the common sense of doing this. ÖBB today has a pretty sizable fleet of locomotives, many vacant and end of life cycle is looming as far as in another 20 years away! These locomotives of class 1144 according to people on train forums who seem to know what they are talking about would be good for freight haulage. More and more of these are said to be stockpiling as class 4020 Bombardier Talents and class 4746 Desiro ML:s take over the traffic of the current 1144 push-pull rakes. I myself am questioning of the rational use of public money as ÖBB is state funded, and how this is in accordance with the European Union subsidy policies.
For starters: Talent class 4020, Desiro ML and class 1144 with push-pull set of ÖBB. Talent is seen here vinyled with adds.    Date: 12/31/15 06:59 Re: [AT] Locomotive Order of Europe for 2016 Author: octrax Wish we had your type of trainsets here in the states!! Happy New Year from the U.S.!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/15 07:00 by octrax. Date: 12/31/15 07:07 Re: [AT] Locomotive Order of Europe for 2016 Author: McKey Thanks! Happy New Year 2016 to you too!
octrax Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Wish we had your type of trainsets here in the > states!! Happy New Year from the U.S.! Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/15 08:14 by McKey. Date: 12/31/15 07:33 Re: [AT] Locomotive Order of Europe for 2016 Author: McKey To the next part of the story: the guys who might be hurt by big public company flexing its muscle are true private operators running through freight in Austria. And of course all startup operators in ex. East Europe - current EU Eastern States. I can see the following companies raising their eyebrows on the tender. Locomotion, Cargoserv and RTC for three. I might be missing a sizable list, but pictures are not available for publishing here.
Some pictures of these operator's locomotives:    Date: 12/31/15 07:41 Re: [AT] Locomotive Order of Europe for 2016 Author: McKey Some more "Lokomotion" running many trains for RTC. I wonder what market share ÖBB has, but if sought, EU might take antimonopoly actions against it, as it clearly has 50% market share, maybe even 75%? Anyone from Austria to confirm the ÖBB market share issue here?
Meanwhile, lets enjoy some more private Lokomotion electrics, some of which are also leased from another private company MRCE, Mitsui Rail Capital Europe GmbH.    Date: 12/31/15 08:09 Re: [AT] Locomotive Order of Europe for 2016 Author: McKey To the tender details in short (sorry, ÖBB seems to have removed the tender from the official site so it is not open for verifications and enquiries any more). This is second hand information, so it is not the actual tender material.
Lot 1: "Standard locomotive": 50+25+25 (100) AC electrics with 350-500 kW diesel engine by 2017. 300 kN or more. 4 axles. Top speed just 120 km/h. Operable in Germany, Austria, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, Croatia, Slovakia, Serbian and part of Czech republic. Possibly in Poland, Italy (for part of the batch this is obligatory), Bosnia, Macedonia, Greece, Belgium, Netherland, Slovenia. Lot 2: Super Cargo West Locomotive: 50 units of AC electric with 1800 kW diesel by 2020. 450 kN or more! 4-6 axles. Top speed 120 km/h. Operable in Germany, Austria, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, Croatia, Serbia and Czech Republic. Other countries desirable. Lot 3: Super Cargo East Locomotive: 50 units of AC electric with 450 kw diesel by 2017: 450 kN or more with 4-6 axles. Top speed 120 km/h. Operable in parts of Austria, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria. Part of the list of other countries. Significant market and technological changes are: -> ÖBB apppears to be widening its operations area significantly, making it even stronger in Austria and nearby markets. It will also open up new long haul markets. -> Move to use electrics equipped with diesel aggregate. Earlier pure electrics or diesel locomotives were used, now these will be combined. -> Move to use 6 axle locomotives large scale for the first time in 20 years in Europe! These might be either Co'Co' or Bo'Bo'Bo' locomotives. This will also meand that finally we are about to see a little longer trains than the tiny little freights typical to many EU countries. 450 kilomnewtons is well in place for climbing hills and mountain sides too. As you read the specifications carefully, it appears this tender looks prefabricated for Bombardier and Siemens, both have ready or will have ready models for this purpose by 2017. Also Newag, Softronic and Stadler (Spain) might take part. As we know, Siemens has long and warm relations with Siemens, so it would be a surprise if they did not win. Let us look at pictures of earlier 6 axle locomotives: 1-2) Class EG, originally built for DSB of Denmark for steep tunnel slopes. This appears top be "a very early Eurosprinter", just 6 axles instead of the usual 4. Co'Co' 3) Or the solution might be Bo'Bo'Bo' design like the SBB Re620 / Re 6/6. Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/15 08:31 by McKey.    Date: 12/31/15 08:14 Re: [AT] Locomotive Order of Europe for 2016 Author: McKey 1) 10 axles: Bo'Bo'+Bo'Bo'Bo' (Re421+Re620 of SBB)
2) Alstom+Transmasholding Russian manufactured Bo'Bo'Bo' class EP20 of RZD. Of course anything manufactured in Russia is out of question since 2014. Will be interesting to see which lcoomotive types are chosen.... Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/15 08:16 by McKey.    Date: 12/31/15 09:02 Re: [AT] Locomotive Order of Europe for 2016 Author: McKey Well, let's include one candidate that is not a probable choise, but still worth mentioning: Stadler Rail EuroDual Co'Co' locomotive. This has pantograph and electrical gear in addition to huge diesel engine of varying sizes. And this locomotive is trustworthy.
Pictures are of pure diesel units as the EuroDual was very hard to catch. Just picture pantograph at the other end of the roof and that is EuroDual. Pictures from Sweden, Norway and Israel.    Date: 12/31/15 10:08 Re: [AT] Locomotive Order of Europe for 2016 Author: E111 > much questioning on active train forums have been on the common
> sense of doing this. The main reason for the tender is that ÖBB wants to expand its freight services towards eastern Europe, including Turkey. Keeping that in mind, the tender makes some sense, at least to me. > ÖBB today has a pretty sizable fleet of locomotives, many vacant > and end of life cycle is looming as far as in another 20 years away! Not really. The Austrian Court of Audit (österreichischer Rechnungshof) critized the ÖBB in his 2014 report (published 2015) for having too many old locomotives on its roster, causing an inadequate amount of money being spent for repairs and service. > These locomotives of class 1144 according to people on train forums > who seem to know what they are talking about would be good for > freight haulage. Yes, they are good for freights and they are used for them. But, as I said before, the new locomotive will be used for the expansion towards the east, where multi-voltage/frequency and multi-system locomotives are needed. Neither the class 1144 nor the class 1142 are multi-voltage/frequency. They only can be used inside Austria and Germany. Looking at the tender, the new units would have to fulfill the following homologisations (and this is far beyond being able to run under the respective countries electrical system; keep in mind that the ATC-systems need to be installed as well):
For the Super Cargo West tender, a MU of two four axle units is also possible. Delivery will start not before 2017. Just my two cents, so please take them for what they are worth ... E111 Date: 12/31/15 12:13 Re: [AT] Locomotive Order of Europe for 2016 Author: McKey Thank you E111 for better quality information than I found on Drehscheibe. I must be wary what the knowledgeable sounding persons there say. Oh, you are of course very reliable, and resourced with better sources as we know from years back on Trainorders.com!
It will be interesting to see what the choise of the existing and almost existing designs will be. I forgot earlier one formidable six axle design (too close under my nose I suppose ;), that could be utilized, albeit with a cab added to the other end too and diesel put inside. But I'm not sure if the needed modifications would be too extensive for this heavy haul loco: IORE.    Date: 01/02/16 12:12 Re: [AT] Locomotive Order of Europe for 2016 Author: SOO6617 The allowance for six-axles is because of the relatively powerful diesel engine desired, 1800kW(~2000hp). It would be difficult to meet both the electric and diesel power requirements without exceeding axle loads in a Bo-Bo locomotive.
CargoServ is owned by VoestAlpine AG, the largest steel maker in Austria, and most of its operations are to serve its parent. Locomotion is interesting as it is jointly owned by Rail Traction Co.(RTC) and DB Schenker. Which is why they own a couple of Hand-me-down Baureihe 139 locomotives from DB Schenker, originally intended to serve as banking locomotives on the Brenner Pass in Austria, but occaisonally used on other lesser moves around München. Date: 01/02/16 21:21 Re: [AT] Locomotive Order of Europe for 2016 Author: McKey Interesting additional info, thanks SOO!
Definitely, the 32,50 ton axle load of the four axle ALP45DP would be too much for Europe outside Malmbana, which alone would carry ALPs too. I included a picture of this locomotive here for those not familiar with it. This is one of the first modern true hybrid loco types built. Looking at the ÖBB order one of the consequences in market development that would appear obvious is the operating mode change to longer hauls and possibly longer trains too. What strikes me is that for the first time (to my ears at least) there is open talking on adding Turkey to normal operation area. So it sounds possible there could even be direct Turkey - Germany and similar trains, with no intermediate locomotive changes on the way. This development might be amplified by the desires of Chinese to build new fast silk roads on rails from China to Turkey. With all the immense political difficulties, and none at all technical, it looks like silk roads (there are several) building is progressing. This may sound foolish, but it would be really interested to see true American style fast freight trains running long distance in Europe too.  |