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European Railroad Discussion > Loco id help

Date: 07/13/19 14:42
Loco id help
Author: jbwest

I am curioius if anyone here can help identify the builder of the loco pictured, or any other info.  I photographed it in November 1970 on the Ferrocarril de El Salvador (FES) which was otherwise entirely steam powered (except for some railcars).  Somebody suggested the unit was acquired used from Columbia.  One of the builders plates is readable and clearly says Siemens.  The other plate is not legible.  I have always assumed it was a diesel electric but perhaps it is a diesel hydraulic.  In subsequent visits I never again saw it on the line, but it apparently survives to this day in the San Salvador Railway Museum.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/19 14:43 by jbwest.

Date: 07/14/19 11:32
Re: Loco id help
Author: boejoe

Thought crossed my mind that perhaps Siemens only provided electrical equipment as an example in Alco-GE.

Date: 07/14/19 11:54
Re: Loco id help
Author: jbwest

boejoe Wrote:
> Thought crossed my mind that perhaps Siemens only
> provided electrical equipment as an example in
> Alco-GE.

Given the fact there are two builders plates that seems quite likely.  The name on the second plate appears to end in a "L", and might be Henshel, although there appear to be too many letters.


Date: 07/15/19 11:39
Re: Loco id help
Author: Steinzeit2

-  If it were Henschel, I would have thought that the Henschel-star would be prominent on the plate.  That 'small' round or near-round emblem reminds me of Hennigsdorf back in the good old "Hans Beimler" days....

-  Since it is in a museum, why not simply "write" them -- they have a Facebook page, etc etc --  and ask who built it and / or ask for a photo* of the bp.  Attach lo-res copies of your two photographs in this post, and offer to send better ones if they wish to make enlargements for display with the loco.  Or something like that.

Regards, SZ

Edited to add on 22 July:  I now see that, at least on one side, the bp's were not present when photographed in 2016.  Hopefully they are in the office for safe keeping, rather than removed by thieves of either the scrap metal or railfan variety.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/19 07:19 by Steinzeit2.

Date: 07/15/19 20:51
Re: Loco id help
Author: inCHI

I don't know european locomotives well but one guess is that is a MaK locomotive. Some of their 50's or 60's designs have similarities.

Date: 07/20/19 23:10
Re: Loco id help
Author: lynnpowell

It's looks appear to correspond with the German DB Class 211 and 212 locomotives, built by MaK from 1962 thru 1965.

Date: 07/22/19 07:43
Re: Loco id help
Author: Steinzeit2

 I.  I don't think this is a MaK product.
      -  No MaK builder's plate
      -  Assuming [ Siemens ] electric transmission, I don't believe MaK had built any diesel electrics by that time
      -  The general appearance does not suggest MaK or any "first line" German builder;  the hood doors / latches look more like a smaller industrial / mining  loco from one of the second-tier builders such as O&K
      -  The general layout and cab outline is similar to the products of perhaps a dozen European builders, not just MaK.   A V100 [ photo attached -- that's a 211 / 212 to you youngsters ] is just one of them -- and V100's were built by a number of builders.

II.  Other more recent [ museum ] photos of this loco show the trucks in better detail, and they certainly look like the classic diesel hydraulic two axle truck.  This suggests the loco might be a diesel hydraulic, and the Siemens plate is on there because they sold it, probably as part of a larger project -- say, a new hydro electric facility.   There is another possibility although, which I think is more likely:  It has frame mounted traction motors, for possibly one or more of these reasons:
     -  Siemens did not have a TM suitable [ narrow enough ] for meter / three foot gauge
     -  The truck design existed and was at hand;  the truck is cast.
     -  It was easier to design or build, and used proven components.
     -  It was going into G8 country, and the spec was built around them.  [ A variation of this is my fav:  The spec didn't call for it, but the salesman said "Sure, we'll do it that way..... ]

So there.  I hope somebody answers the OP's question soon, so I can sleep nights.


Date: 07/25/19 22:11
Re: Loco id help
Author: jbwest

Not sure this will help but here is a blowup of the builders plates on the loco.  Thanks to all for your input.


Date: 07/26/19 13:42
Re: Loco id help
Author: Steinzeit2

OK, I THINK those letters say Ferrostahl, a division of MAN in that era.  They built a lot [ well, in relative terms ] of railcars for South / Central America, and were well connected with the mining and related industry plants in those countries, so a locomotive order seems very likely.  Further, the emblem on the builders plate suggests [ well, suggests to me, and I admit to having an imagination ] the  "Arrow" streamlined diesel trainsets built for Chile.

Anyway, that's my guess and I'm sticking to it until somebody else better decodes all those Greek-looking letters on the bp......

I admit to being unsuccessful in finding information on their locomotives from that era -- so far ......

Best, SZ

Date: 07/26/19 15:33
Re: Loco id help
Author: jbwest

I share your imagination, seem to see somthing ending in "aal", and I would vote for Ferrostaal.  Timing and geography is right for Ferrostaal's attempt to get into the railway market, and Siemen's electrical gear would be consistent with that, at least in a general way.  I found a list of Ferrostaal railway projects on line (Ferrostaal railway projects) and while it did not go far enough back, it did list some locomotives among a rather varied portfolio of railway and other "stuff".  Ferrostaal seemed to do a little of everything.


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/19 15:35 by jbwest.

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