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Date: 12/13/19 14:40
UK passenger numbers
Author: prrmpup

UK annual passenger numbers have now reached about 1.8 Billion.
I believe this would represent a 100% increase since the mid 1990's.
The downside is the infrastructure and Train Operating Companies are really struggling with demand.

https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/1651/passenger-rail-usage-2019-20-q2.pdf



Date: 12/13/19 14:46
Re: UK passenger numbers
Author: exhaustED

Proof that privatisation was indeed a very good thing in the 1990s.... discuss...



Date: 12/13/19 17:48
Re: UK passenger numbers
Author: choodude

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Proof that privatisation was indeed a very good thing in the 1990s.... discuss...

I recall the initial privatization of the Right of Way was a catastrophic disaster.  Several wrecks due to poor infrastructure maintenance.

Now the Government owns the track infrastructure and private companies do the above the rail stuff.  Much like air transportation.

One can see method in Amtrak's "above the rails" claims of near break even PR.

Brian



Date: 12/14/19 01:32
Re: UK passenger numbers
Author: exhaustED

There was one bad crash due to poor track maintenance, but it came shortly after two other crashes, both caused by signals passes at danger.



Date: 12/14/19 03:41
Re: UK passenger numbers
Author: 86235

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was one bad crash due to poor track
> maintenance

Two, Hatfield and Potters Bar



Date: 12/14/19 03:47
Re: UK passenger numbers
Author: exhaustED

86235 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> exhaustED Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There was one bad crash due to poor track
> > maintenance
>
> Two, Hatfield and Potters Bar

​Thanks for the correction Nick.



Date: 12/14/19 05:33
Re: UK passenger numbers
Author: 86235

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Two, Hatfield and Potters Bar
>
> ​Thanks for the correction Nick.

You may remember that Jarvis, the contractor responsible, tried to shift the blame to some unknown sabotage of the switch mechanism, the switch changed under an EMU travelling at almost 100 mph. The subsequent enquiry rubbished Jarvis claims, it was simply poor maintenance inadequately supervised, but they were quite insistent, maintaining their innocence in the face of all available evidence. Jarvis the corporation never recovered and Network Rail took the business of track maintenance back in house.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/19 05:36 by 86235.



Date: 12/14/19 06:05
Re: UK passenger numbers
Author: exhaustED

I guess certain functions are so safety critical it would be difficult for them to function as private companies. I don't know how other countries with intensive passenger networks arrange infrastructure maintenance or even other industries like air traffic control.

Posted from Android



Date: 12/14/19 09:09
Re: UK passenger numbers
Author: prrmpup

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Proof that privatisation was indeed a very good
> thing in the 1990s.... discuss...

Unknowable IMHO.
BR did not continue and we don't know what would have happened without the private operators. The debate on that issue will just never end.
Nevertheless, a remarkable achievement. 



Date: 12/14/19 14:09
Re: UK passenger numbers
Author: 86235

I think one needs to be careful about the definition of privatisation in our railways.

Network Rail is owned by the government, the Train Operating Companies (some private companies, others off-shoots of other European government owned operators) run services mandated by the Department for Transport (DfT) for which most franchise operators receive a subsidy from the taxpayer. London North Eastern is entirely state owned and the Secretary of State for Transport has suggested that the Northern franchise may have to be taken into state control. Both Transport for Wales and Scotrail are owned by their respective governments.

The only open access 'for profit' operators are First Hull Trains and Arriva Grand Central (which is owned by Deutsch Bahn).

Most rolling stock is owned by Rolling Stock Companies (often owned in turn by banks) although the DfT is usually responsible for specifying and ordering the equipment.

So however you cut it the hand of government is all over our railways, which is ironic really because 'privatisation' was supposed to remove the railways from the sphere of government, in reality the opposite has been true.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/19 14:48 by 86235.



Date: 12/14/19 15:40
Re: UK passenger numbers
Author: Steinzeit2

86235 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> exhaustED Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There was one bad crash due to poor track
> > maintenance
>
> Two, Hatfield and Potters Bar

You don't consider Grayrigg to be a bad crash ?  Or just outside [ 2007 ] the time frame of the discussion ?

SZ



Date: 12/14/19 23:57
Re: UK passenger numbers
Author: 86235

Steinzeit2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 86235 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > exhaustED Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > There was one bad crash due to poor track
> > > maintenance
> >
> > Two, Hatfield and Potters Bar
>
> You don't consider Grayrigg to be a bad crash ? 
> Or just outside [ 2007 ] the time frame of the
> discussion ?
>
> SZ

You are right, Grayrigg should have been included, it's cause was the same as Potters Bar, poor maintenance practice and inadequate supervision.



Date: 12/16/19 05:18
Re: UK passenger numbers
Author: choodude

The bottom line is that until Government sells off every last square inch of roadway infrastructure, puts the property back on the local tax polls, including streetlights and police services, and allows tolling thereof -- the same for ALL other transportation facilities -- "Privatization" of of rail passenger service will just be a dishonest political shell game of where is the subsidy hidden.

Brian



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