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European Railroad Discussion > French Train Carbon Emissions


Date: 02/12/20 11:05
French Train Carbon Emissions
Author: andersonb109

I was just looking at SCNF train schedules to get to Nice from Paris for a possible steam charter in October. For some reason I thought it would be faster than 5.5 hours. But the reason for the post. I noticed at the bottom of the schedule for available trains it shows the amount of CO2  each train emits. I'm all for cutting down on pollution such is seen in places like China and India where it really is horrible. But do train travelers in France really care how much carbon a train will emit? So they would choose a departure that emits less?  I know it wouldn't affect my travel decisions. And the train runs regardless who is on them. Just found it curious and happy I'm not living in Europe.



Date: 02/12/20 17:38
Re: French Train Carbon Emissions
Author: Lurch_in_ABQ

It's the Greta movement. Abide or be shamed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greta_Thunberg



Date: 02/13/20 03:42
Re: French Train Carbon Emissions
Author: 55002

I'd not spotted this Bruce. Only yesterday I was using the DB web site for a trip in Germany. I've just gone back, had a careful look, and found a "Environmental Mobility Check" section.
As we would say over here - "What a load of bollocks!!" Get some of this 2-stroke up your nose, Greta.
chris uk.




Date: 02/13/20 07:18
Re: French Train Carbon Emissions
Author: tq-07fan

Perhaps it could also be the reason to take the train as opposed to Ouibus, Flixbus, and other bus lines or flying? The buses are cheaper then SNCF and every time SNCF goes on strike more people are finding out what bus travel is like in France.

Haven't looked to see if the buses include the carbon footprint. Quite honestly I thought I saw more from the buses, they were on time even with heavier loads due to SNCF being on strike. I didn't worry about the environment.

Jim

Posted from Android



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/20 07:21 by tq-07fan.



Date: 02/13/20 09:21
Re: French Train Carbon Emissions
Author: WoodwardEJ

So how do you feel about restaurant menus that list the calorie content of the items?



Date: 02/13/20 10:34
Re: French Train Carbon Emissions
Author: exhaustED

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was just looking at SCNF train schedules to get
> to Nice from Paris for a possible steam charter in
> October. For some reason I thought it would be
> faster than 5.5 hours. But the reason for the
> post. I noticed at the bottom of the schedule for
> available trains it shows the amount of CO2  each
> train emits. I'm all for cutting down on pollution
> such is seen in places like China and India where
> it really is horrible. But do train travelers in
> France really care how much carbon a train will
> emit? So they would choose a departure that emits
> less?  I know it wouldn't affect my travel
> decisions. And the train runs regardless who is on
> them. Just found it curious and happy I'm not
> living in Europe.

Many people do care about carbon emissions, and the proportion of people who do is increasing as the fossils who 'made hay' with fossil fuels slowly die off! It's about increasing awareness of a world that is bigger than the individual.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/20 10:36 by exhaustED.



Date: 02/13/20 10:35
Re: French Train Carbon Emissions
Author: exhaustED

55002 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd not spotted this Bruce. Only yesterday I was
> using the DB web site for a trip in Germany. I've
> just gone back, had a careful look, and found a
> "Environmental Mobility Check" section.
> As we would say over here - "What a load of
> bollocks!!" Get some of this 2-stroke up your
> nose, Greta.
> chris uk.

That's a very intelligent and informed post there, Chris - you should be proud.



Date: 02/14/20 18:01
Re: French Train Carbon Emissions
Author: ATSF3751

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was just looking at SCNF train schedules to get
> to Nice from Paris for a possible steam charter in
> October. For some reason I thought it would be
> faster than 5.5 hours. But the reason for the
> post. I noticed at the bottom of the schedule for
> available trains it shows the amount of CO2  each
> train emits. I'm all for cutting down on pollution
> such is seen in places like China and India where
> it really is horrible. But do train travelers in
> France really care how much carbon a train will
> emit? So they would choose a departure that emits
> less?  I know it wouldn't affect my travel
> decisions. And the train runs regardless who is on
> them. Just found it curious and happy I'm not
> living in Europe.

Look Anderson, we all know you don't give a rodents behind about the enviornment. Why even make comments anymore?
SNCF's move to indicate carbon emissions is just a beginning. A new generation will care, a generation that actually embraces facts. 



Date: 02/15/20 00:18
Re: French Train Carbon Emissions
Author: SP4360

He makes comments to get his jollies reading rebuttal comments. He needs to be enabled. 

ATSF3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> andersonb109 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I was just looking at SCNF train schedules to
> get
> > to Nice from Paris for a possible steam charter
> in
> > October. For some reason I thought it would be
> > faster than 5.5 hours. But the reason for the
> > post. I noticed at the bottom of the schedule
> for
> > available trains it shows the amount of CO2 
> each
> > train emits. I'm all for cutting down on
> pollution
> > such is seen in places like China and India
> where
> > it really is horrible. But do train travelers
> in
> > France really care how much carbon a train will
> > emit? So they would choose a departure that
> emits
> > less?  I know it wouldn't affect my travel
> > decisions. And the train runs regardless who is
> on
> > them. Just found it curious and happy I'm not
> > living in Europe.
>
> Look Anderson, we all know you don't give a
> rodents behind about the enviornment. Why even
> make comments anymore?
> SNCF's move to indicate carbon emissions is just a
> beginning. A new generation will care, a
> generation that actually embraces facts. 



Date: 02/15/20 09:01
Re: French Train Carbon Emissions
Author: pennengineer

They provide that information because it allows people to compare the environmental impact of each mode of travel. On one hand, many in the traveling public want this information and providing it is no imposition to those who are not interested in it, and on the other hand, it paints the railway in a positive light Amon those who care about this sort of thing. In other words, if it costs next to nothing to provide and offers positive advert for the railway, the railway companies would be foolish *not* to provide it, no?

Posted from iPhone



Date: 02/15/20 09:07
Re: French Train Carbon Emissions
Author: pennengineer

Also, for those of you who get upset about the activism of a young Swedish girl such as the above commenters, you’ll be relieved to know that these emission check features on European train operator sites have been around for years, long predating the prominence of Ms. Thunberg. The “mobility check” on the DB website has been around for some 10 years and no one batted an eye, but apparently a small Scandinavian drawing attention to the issue now makes it contentious?

Posted from iPhone



Date: 02/15/20 13:30
Re: French Train Carbon Emissions
Author: tq-07fan

tq-07fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps it could also be the reason to take the
> train as opposed to Ouibus, Flixbus, and other bus
> lines or flying? The buses are cheaper then SNCF
> and every time SNCF goes on strike more people are
> finding out what bus travel is like in France.
>
> Haven't looked to see if the buses include the
> carbon footprint. Quite honestly I thought I saw
> more from the buses, they were on time even with
> heavier loads due to SNCF being on strike. I
> didn't worry about the environment.
>
> Jim
>
> Posted from Android

I guess I set my own trap. I said I didn't worry about the environment but I should have qualified that as to say I don't go worrying about what mode I use as to what it would do to the environment. Even that is not totally correct as if I really didn't care I would hire (rent) an SUV and drive everywhere. When I travel more than a day away from home I usually take buses, fly or take trains. The exceptions would be going to rural areas and even then I will park the vehicle and ride a dial-a-ride bus sometimes. When I get to other cities though I ride buses, trams, light rail, subways and other public transit instead of renting a car, or even driving my own. I don't consciously do it for environmental reasons but I think it is stupid to drive in large cities when you can usually get from one place to another by using public transit quicker than driving and dealing with parking.

I do not know how Greta is perceived in Europe but there are many here in the United States who think she is a hypocrite. To say that she is being environmentally conscious by sailing across the Atlantic to scorn airline travel but you flew a team to retrieve the boat.

Sailing team to fly 2 crew to US 

It depends on who you listen to but there are so many holes in so many environmental theories, you don't know what to believe. There have been environmental theories that were so dire such as famine caused by polution that have just never occured. We also have environmental policies that are too restrictive, wasteful and almost make-work type studies required that simply prevent things from getting done. This is the fault of some of the ignorant environmental activism. It aggravates people to the point where they no longer believe or no longer care. I actually do care, but I am not going to stop traveling to see as many trolleybuses, buses, trains, trams, light rails, subways and other cool stuff as humanly possible because it does some harm to the environment. By traveling I have actually seen firsthand that Global Warming is indeed happening (ex. Alaska). It depends on who you listen to for if it is a natural occurrence or caused by man. How much we can really do to make any dent in it is largely debatable. I believe that many of the best policies for environment have already been put in place. I think some have been overdone yet some other industries need to do more (like refineries).

I also believe that by politely asking everyone to do their part goes a long way. Unfortunately there are so many small things that could be done that would make huge impacts. Unfortunately, how do you tell someone who was born stupid and would likely shoot you that they should stop letting their car idle needlessly? Recycling has become habitual for many where thirty years ago you never really heard of it. The environmentally friendly products are becoming more reliable and less costly. I just started using plant based laundry detergent, which is now at the same price point as the regular stuff. I haven't really got to test it out with any heavy stains but in a half dozen loads I can say that clothes come out softer and smell great! I actually do have great concern for water quality so will likely never use the chemical based stuff again. There is so much clear evidence that the stuff in soaps and detergents do a lot of damage to the environment, or at least water. It is tangible. Some of that other stuff, less tangible. Some of the theories sound like these people were huffing aerosol cans, which would not be environmentally friendly...

Jim



Date: 02/15/20 16:44
Re: French Train Carbon Emissions
Author: Steinzeit2

pennengineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They provide that information because it allows
> people to compare the environmental impact of each
> mode of travel. On one hand, many in the traveling
> public want this information and providing it is
> no imposition to those who are not interested in
> it, and on the other hand, it paints the railway
> in a positive light Amon those who care about this
> sort of thing. In other words, if it costs next to
> nothing to provide and offers positive advert for
> the railway, the railway companies would be
> foolish *not* to provide it, no?

Well, "....[ if it ] offers positive advert for the railway", sure,  which is why  SNCF -- or Oui as they wish to be called now -- is using it.  But what it really reflects, in the case of TGV or other all electric domestic journeys, is that perhaps 90% of the electricity generated in France at the time frame* of the statistics used was generated by EDF's nuclear plants.  If one applied that to an electric car, the carbon footprint for that vehicle goes down to perhaps 12 g per vehicle km;  if four passengers were carried over TGV-like distances, the car would win.  And on the 'Calculations of CO2 emissions' page of the timetable note the disparity between a domestic TGV and a Thalys or Eurostar, the later giving a more realistic modal comparison.  Note how high the TER and Intercities figures are;  in part I'm sure this is because a portion of them are diesel powered, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit that SNCF inflates those fuel and electric consumption figures so they can bill the TER agency and get rid of the Intercities....

*They may be using 4 and 5 year old statistics because they are too lazy to compute more current ones -- or because in more recent years with more and more reactors, especially the 40+ year old ones or the brand new ones,  going off line for safety reasons [ imagine that ! ] the footprint figures have climbed upwards a bit.

Best regards, SZ
 



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