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European Railroad Discussion > Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2


Date: 02/26/21 18:50
Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: NMlurker

And here is the finale of my brief jaunt through a small part of England more than 36 years ago.  I appreciate all who viewed and particularly those that commented as I learned things.  Be on the lookout on the International discussion as I think I will be motivated to post some images of the offspring of the Inter-City 125: Australia's XPT trains that still roam New South Wales and beyond.

1. I am not sure if this Inter-City 125 trainset is departing northward from the York station or heading for its departure platform because in the next photo there is an IC125 under the train shed. There were several IC125s coming and going that afternoon.

2. A set of power consisting of Class 47/0 No. 47189 and two Class 20s drift past the station.  Since the prior photo, there are now three trains in the background, an IC125, a DMU set, and a locomotive-hauled passenger train.  Note the illuminated 'X' on the cantilever signal above the rear of the Class 47/0.

3. A view of the power set going away with Class 20/0 locos Nos. 20045 and 20176.  The Class 20s have always reminded me of Fairbanks-Morse switchers because of the end cab, high hood, and rounded lines.  The Class 20 however is not a shunter, it is rather unique compared to all the full carbody, double-cab designs.  As of my 2016 guide, there were still several of this class in use.

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/21 09:54 by NMlurker.








Date: 02/26/21 18:51
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: NMlurker

4. Class 47/0 No. 47269 departs with its 8-car train.

5. A well-worn Class 46 No. 46027 drifts by.

6. Class 45/1 No. 45137 arrives with a passenger train from the north. Note that this one has a red name plate which would have been for a military regiment per my guidebook. (See below for identification of the name plate)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/21 09:58 by NMlurker.








Date: 02/26/21 22:21
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: exhaustED

Really nice shots! The class 20s were a very interesting loco, very versatile, English Electric 1000hp engine, often paired 'nose to nose' on freights. Still some operational today. Nicknamed 'choppers' as their turbocharger made a very distinctive sound slightly reminiscent of a helicopter when accelerating.

I'm just wondering if the first 'peak' class 45 shot is actually a class 46...(is the number 46027?) the only reasonably obvious difference between a class 45/0 and 46 was the battery box covers between the bogies... 45s had a cross on them, 46s were plain...

The 45/1 on the passenger train looks like 45137, named 'The Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment T.A.'. Probably on a Edinburgh-Plymouth or Newcastle-Penzace type service...or trans-Pennine as Hexagon789 says may be more likely.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/21 01:14 by exhaustED.



Date: 02/26/21 23:39
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: Hexagon789

NMlurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And here is the finale of my brief jaunt through a
> small part of England more than 36 years ago.  I
> appreciate all who viewed and particularly those
> that commented as I learned things.  Be on the
> lookout on the International discussion as I think
> I will be motivated to post some images of the
> offspring of the Inter-City 125: Australia's XPT
> trains that still roam New South Wales and
> beyond.
>
> 1. I am not sure if this Inter-City 125 trainset
> is departing northward from the York station or
> heading for its departure platform because in the
> next photo there is an IC125 under the train shed.
> There were several IC125s coming and going that
> afternoon.
>
> 2. A set of power consisting of Class 47/1 No.
> 47189 and two Class 20s drift past the station. 
> Since the prior photo, there are now three trains
> in the background, an IC125, a DMU set, and a
> locomotive-hauled passenger train.  Note the
> illuminated 'X' on the cantilever signal above the
> rear of the Class 47/1.
>
> 3. A view of the power set going away with Class
> 20/0 locos Nos. 20045 and 20176.  The Class 20s
> have always reminded me of Fairbanks-Morse
> switchers because of the end cab, high hood, and
> rounded lines.  The Class 20 however is not a
> shunter, it is rather unique compared to all the
> full carbody, double-cab designs.  As of my 2016
> guide, there were still several of this class in
> use.
>
>  

Thanks for posting more photos, particularly like the IC125.

1. It's heading towards the camera, out of the station, you can make out the lilluminated white marker lights and driver's-side headlight. Interestingly you've caught one in with two catering cars as was the original arrangement of some IC125s. This was getting rarer by this point and from the next year most went to just one catering car except business-orientated "Pullman" workings. Even on 1984 the 125 service was quite frequent usually two an hour through York from London.

2. It's a 47/0, there's no 47/1. Denotes a standard 47 originally fitted with steam heating boiler though most were removed by this point. Most were used on freight as with the /3 variant.

3. And usually used in pairs cabs outwards, as drivers weren't keen on driving them hood first out on the mainline. They have a particularly good engine sound as well!

Posted from Android



Date: 02/26/21 23:46
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: Hexagon789

NMlurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 4. A Class 47 departs with its 8-car train.
>
> 5. A well-worn Class 45 drifts by.
>
> 6. And another Class 45 arrives with a passenger
> train from the north. Note that this one has a red
> name plate which would have been for a military
> regiment per my guidebook.

4. 4. Looks like a Trans-Pennine service heading for Newcastle, the train consist fits. Would've started over in Liverpool.

5. Just to echo ExhaustED, I think it is a 46.

6. Possibly another Trans-Pennine working, at the time these were shared between 47/4s and 45/1s.

Thanks again for the photos, a great record of a time of change on British Rail, there were quite a number of schedule accelerations and improvements in 1984.

Posted from Android



Date: 02/26/21 23:47
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: Hexagon789

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really nice shots! The class 20s were a very
> interesting loco, very versatile, English Electric
> 1000hp engine, often paired 'nose to nose' on
> freights. Still some operational today. I'm just
> wondering if the first 'peak' class 45 shot is
> actually a class 46...(is the number 46027?) the
> only reasonably obvious difference between a class
> 45/0 and 46 was the battery box covers between the
> bogies... 45s had a cross on them, 46s were
> plain...
> The 45/1 on the passenger train looks like 45137,
> named 'The Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment
> T.A.'. Probably on a Edinburgh-Plymouth or
> Newcastle-Penzace type service.

I would agree with you sir, I think it is a 46. Good locos, certainly reliable enough that in earlier times they would be trusted with hauling the Royal Train.

Posted from Android



Date: 02/27/21 09:53
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: NMlurker

You guys have very good eyes. I realized I could go to the high-resolution images and see all of the locomotive numbers. I have made the various required edits.



Date: 02/27/21 10:14
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: exhaustED

NMlurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You guys have very good eyes. I realized I could
> go to the high-resolution images and see all of
> the locomotive numbers. I have made the various
> required edits.

Good job! It's inspired me to go through a big box of photos I have from that same era in the UK... What are you using to scan your photos?



Date: 02/27/21 10:58
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: Hexagon789

NMlurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You guys have very good eyes. I realized I could
> go to the high-resolution images and see all of
> the locomotive numbers. I have made the various
> required edits.


Not good enough to read the name on the HST power car though sadly. Looks like one word and an emblem of some sort.

Posted from Android



Date: 02/27/21 13:58
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: exhaustED

Hexagon789 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NMlurker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You guys have very good eyes. I realized I
> could
> > go to the high-resolution images and see all of
> > the locomotive numbers. I have made the various
> > required edits.
>
>
> Not good enough to read the name on the HST power
> car though sadly. Looks like one word and an
> emblem of some sort.
>

43193 'Yorkshire Post'. ;-)



Date: 02/27/21 14:41
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: Hexagon789

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hexagon789 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > NMlurker Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > You guys have very good eyes. I realized I
> > could
> > > go to the high-resolution images and see all
> of
> > > the locomotive numbers. I have made the
> various
> > > required edits.
> >
> >
> > Not good enough to read the name on the HST
> power
> > car though sadly. Looks like one word and an
> > emblem of some sort.
> >
>
> 43193 'Yorkshire Post'. ;-)

You did a lot better than me! I couldn't read it no matter how I tried.

I think 43193 is one of those now stored out of service, having last operated under GWR.

Posted from Android



Date: 02/27/21 19:06
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: exhaustED

It's not totally definitive but I thought there weren't many named class 43s back in '84, then when I looked at photos of the various nameplates from them it looked very much like the one in the photo i.e. short/two words and with a white rose/emblem just before the name. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/21 19:08 by exhaustED.



Date: 02/28/21 00:37
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: Hexagon789

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not totally definitive but I thought there
> weren't many named class 43s back in '84, then
> when I looked at photos of the various nameplates
> from them it looked very much like the one in the
> photo i.e. short/two words and with a white
> rose/emblem just before the name. 

Excellent detective work, I found a picture of the power car in question elsewhere and I think it matches.

Yes, I think this is just before British Rail went naming mad, sticking a name on just about anything that moved and naming more passenger services. Not that I'm against that, but it's also when the rather uninspiring names started appearing such as Nuclear power stations and corporate investors things like that - not quite as nice as say Golden Plover or Silver Fox in my view.

Posted from Android



Date: 02/28/21 02:58
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: exhaustED

I couldn't agree more - naming after TV programs was surely a low point... 'BBC Look North' and 'Top of the Pops', not to mention things like 'Rotherham Enterprise'.... what were they thinking?! Quantity not quality, obviously!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/21 03:18 by exhaustED.



Date: 02/28/21 05:20
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: Hexagon789

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I couldn't agree more - naming after TV programs
> was surely a low point... 'BBC Look North' and
> 'Top of the Pops', not to mention things like
> 'Rotherham Enterprise'.... what were they
> thinking?! Quantity not quality, obviously!


Good publicity though, I suppose. I take the view that the naming scheme was extended so much as a PR exercise, though whether it actually had the intended results...

Posted from Android



Date: 02/28/21 15:36
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: NMlurker

exhaustED Wrote:

> Good job! It's inspired me to go through a big box
> of photos I have from that same era in the UK...
> What are you using to scan your photos?

I scan with a Plustek OpticFilm 7600i and SilverFast 8 software. Good enough to have had several images that I scanned published as large as calendar size. I believe it was the mid-range scanner in the line of three at the time.

I just looked at the full resolution image of the IC125 shot and can only make out the '43...'  I do agree that the plaque says [something] Post so the proposed number and name seem likely to be correct but I cannot confirm from my end.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/21 07:41 by NMlurker.



Date: 03/01/21 01:58
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: Hexagon789

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I couldn't agree more - naming after TV programs
> was surely a low point... 'BBC Look North' and
> 'Top of the Pops', not to mention things like
> 'Rotherham Enterprise'.... what were they
> thinking?! Quantity not quality, obviously!

Definitely, some even just sounded plain ridiculous - there was one called something like 'Helston Furry Dance' I kid you not! No idea what that even is.

Posted from Android



Date: 03/01/21 03:48
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: exhaustED

Hexagon789 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> exhaustED Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I couldn't agree more - naming after TV
> programs
> > was surely a low point... 'BBC Look North' and
> > 'Top of the Pops', not to mention things like
> > 'Rotherham Enterprise'.... what were they
> > thinking?! Quantity not quality, obviously!
>
> Definitely, some even just sounded plain
> ridiculous - there was one called something like
> 'Helston Furry Dance' I kid you not! No idea what
> that even is.
>

Lol, I saw that 'Furry Dance' one on a list... and thought I'd had a glass too many and had started hallucinating!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/21 04:56 by exhaustED.



Date: 03/01/21 03:50
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: exhaustED

NMlurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> exhaustED Wrote:
>
> > Good job! It's inspired me to go through a big
> box
> > of photos I have from that same era in the
> UK...
> > What are you using to scan your photos?
>
> I scan with a Plustek OpticFilm 7600 and
> SilverFast 8 software. Good enough to have had
> several images that I scanned published as large
> as calendar size. I believe it was the mid-range
> scanner in the line of three at the time.
>
> I just looked at the full resolution image of the
> IC125 shot and can only make out the '43...'  I
> do agree that the plaque says Post so the
> proposed number and name seem likely to be correct
> but I cannot confirm from my end.

Excellent thank you!
I think we did get the ID correct on the HST power car then!



Date: 03/01/21 04:48
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 2
Author: Hexagon789

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hexagon789 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > exhaustED Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I couldn't agree more - naming after TV
> > programs
> > > was surely a low point... 'BBC Look North'
> and
> > > 'Top of the Pops', not to mention things like
> > > 'Rotherham Enterprise'.... what were they
> > > thinking?! Quantity not quality, obviously!
> >
> > Definitely, some even just sounded plain
> > ridiculous - there was one called something
> like
> > 'Helston Furry Dance' I kid you not! No idea
> what
> > that even is.
> >
>
> Lol, I saw that 'Furry Dance' one on a list... and
> thought I'd had a glass too many and has started
> hallucinating!!

I know what you mean, it is the sort of thing you'd expect to start seeing after one dram too many!

Posted from Android



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