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European Railroad Discussion > Beautiful light at Venice Italy (and trains)


Date: 10/29/24 20:35
Beautiful light at Venice Italy (and trains)
Author: erielackawanna

Back on September 14 of this yeaer, I took a couple hours off from vacation with my spouse and headed to the end of the platforms at Stazione di Venezia Santa Lucia in Venice, Italy. Wound up shooting 28 trains. Here are my seven favorites. 

Image one - A rake of Hitachi Vivalto cars (a term that roughly translates to High Life) await their next train assignment at Stazione di Venezia Santa Lucia. 

Image two - FS Trenitalia train 17354 from Trieste has just arrived at Stazione di Venezia Santa Lucia and will, in a moment, drop its rear pantograph and raise its forward one in preparation for its next departure. Power is a Bombardier E464 in FS XMPR scheme. A second, like-painted, E464 is on the other end of the train.

Image three - A Bombardier E464 shoves a push-pull set of Vivaldi cars out of Stazione di Venezia Santa Lucia, making up FS Trenitalia Regionale 16395 to Portogruaro, The front of the train is already on the causeway to the mainland. 








Date: 10/29/24 20:36
Re: Beautiful light at Venice Italy (and trains)
Author: erielackawanna

Image four - An FS Trenitalia Coradia Stream MU set heads into its station track at Stazione di Venezia Santa Lucia. These trainsets are named "Pop" on FS Trenitalia (and are one of a number of types of MUs named for styles of music).

Image five - FS Trenitalia Regionale 17181 from Verona arrives behind a clean E464, number 156, and a string of clean Medie Distanze MDVC coaches. Was great to get older equipment like this (even though it's not all that old). The train is pulling into track four at Stazione di Venezia Santa Lucia. The rear of the train is still on the causeway that connects Venice to the mainland.

Image six - FS Trenitalia Alta Velocità Frecciarossa 9411 to Rome Fiumicino Airport glides out of Venice. The train is a HItachi/Alsthom ETR1000. It will arrive at Leonardo da Vinci Airport in 4 hours and 37 minutes. This service has limited stops, making it one of the fastest options for traveling directly from Venice to Rome Fiumicino. This direct high-speed route is convenient for travelers heading to the airport, as it avoids the need to transfer at Roma Termini, and it's popular for its speed and comfort.








Date: 10/29/24 20:37
Re: Beautiful light at Venice Italy (and trains)
Author: erielackawanna

Image seven - I couldn't figure out what train this was... but with the E464s and the MDVC coaches, I suspect it was a Verona or a Trieste train. 




Date: 11/09/24 05:48
Re: Beautiful light at Venice Italy (and trains)
Author: march_hare

Interesting that they have electric locomotives with only one cab. Exclusively used in push pull operation?



Date: 11/11/24 16:25
Re: Beautiful light at Venice Italy (and trains)
Author: ironmtn

march_hare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting that they have electric locomotives
> with only one cab. Exclusively used in push pull
> operation?

If you mean push-pull with a locomotive at either end, no, not exclusively, although that is a frequent configuration. If on the other hand you mean push-pull with a cab control car at one end and locomotive at the other, also not exclusively, but quite commonly.

Nice shots of the these FS E-464 motors - thanks. Just a few weeks ago I sat on a bench trackside at Venice Santa Lucia station awaiting posting of my own train to Milan, and watched several arrive on regional trains. They had already become favorites after seeing them elsewhere in northern Italy a number of times. That's not hard to do, as there are over 700 of them in service, and they handle many trains in various classes of service. I even saw a couple in freight service, which they handle, I understand, on a more limited basis.. They are quite good looking with their more traditional styling, simple and dignified but attractive livery  and more traditional diamond pantographs.

They actually have a second "cab" or driver's control in the rear where that sliding door is located. We would call it a hostler control stand or hostling cab over here, as some EMD F-series and cabless GP-series hood units (as on UP, for example) sometimes had.. In their parlance, it's a shunting cab. Both I and my traveling companion were intrigued by that rear door and square end, and at first thought that it was a small apartment at the rear for package express or baggage. But a later internet reading revealed that the door is for access to that hostling or shunting cab. They are allowed to operate up to 19 mph in switching moves when operated from the shunting cab.

Some internet reference I came across referenced that second control position as a compromise with the Italian rail unions, which are quite strong and politically influential. FS apparently wanted a full second cab for operational flexibility, but the unions objected, perhaps fearing job losses. So the shunting cab was the compromise. I have not been able to independently verify if this actually explains that design or not.

I have to assume that there are a window or two on that square rear end for shunting / hostling use. But I cannot find a photo anywhere on the internet of that rear end despite an extensive search, not even in a model. And I never saw one of them uncoupled from a train. I wish I would have been more curious and thoughtful about it that afternoon as I sat there at the station at Venice. Even coupled up, it would have been easy for me to have walked down the platform a bit and taken a shot through the coupling of the rear panel of the locomotive. Later edit - finally found a photo of the rear of an E-464 that shows the window for the shunting / hostling cab: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:S4186_Bf_Ferrara,_E464.jpg

Someone mentioned in another post recently that they make quite a racket when the pantographs are raised or lowered. I don't think it's the action of raising or lowering a pan that causing all of the noise, which can be considerable. Instead, it's the fans cooling down the resistive brake grids along the roofline. As a train with an E-464 comes up the bumper post for a stop, those fans are absolutely howling blowing off the heat through those grids as the driver applies "dynamic" braking - as can be the case with diesels here in North America. The Italian electrical system is 3000 volts DC and one-way on non-high-speed lines, and thus the feeder power substations lack the ability to be able to fully utilize energy fed back into the catenary unless voltage has dropped due to drain by other trains in the area. As such it lacks the same capability for regenerative braking energy to go back into the catenary and grid that other electrical systems can have. So "dynamic" or regenerative braking energy has to be dissipated as heat through those grids on the roof, again as with diesel-electrics here in North America.

As a result, a locomotive can be stopped for quite some time with those fans  blowing the heat away before the racket quiets down, and during that time period pans are often raised and lowered for the reverse trip. The pantograph mechanism adds some noise, but the cacophony is mostly those brake grid cooling fans running full tilt to dissipate all of the energy of very gradually slowing, and then fully stopping the train as it came into the station. But the grids and the fans also do operate operate for a while when pans are lowered or raised, even if the braking energy has been cooled off. Just for not as long or hard as they do when doing braking energy cooling.

Classic good looks in a modern package, and with intriguing features as well. Much better looking in my opinion than other models in the Bombardier (now Alstom) TRAXX series of straight-electric locomotives used in Europe. And my understanding is that FS likes them operationally, and that they run well and are reliable. A lot for us in the railfan community to enjoy. I think they'll be "classics" for us now for some years to come.

MC

Image: An FS Trenitalia Bombardier-ADTranz Class E-464 (TRAXX P160 DCP) locomotive at Venice Santa Lucia station October 17, 2024.

Later edit - As noted above, I finally found a photo of the rear of an E-464 that shows the window for the shunting / hostling cab: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:S4186_Bf_Ferrara,_E464.jpg  Translation of the German text with that image: "Switched E464 with a view to the end of the transition. This is equipped with complete signal lanterns, in the luggage compartment there is a lockable auxiliary guide stand. The loading doors were intended for use with train attendants and are hardly used anymore due to the staff savings. If anything, then access is done by the transfer of carriage."

So apparently the rear apartment on the locomotive was designed for train staff use after all, in addition to holding the shunting / hostler controls. And thus perhaps for baggage or express. Interesting to be sure, in any case.
 



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/24 20:18 by ironmtn.




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