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Date: 01/26/25 20:46
British Rail Question
Author: RFandPFan

This may be a pretty basic question, but I’ll ask it anyways. I enjoy watching YouTube videos from the cab of British passenger trains. However, I have noticed that all the freight trains they pass or meet are relatively short. Is there a reason that they don’t run longer freight trains in England, or are there other non-passenger train lines that do? Thanks for any info.

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Date: 01/26/25 21:34
Re: British Rail Question
Author: PumpkinHogger

From my limited knowledge and exposure to UK railways -

Would guess train lengths in the vacuum braked days didn't do so well with long trains.

The network was likely built out over time with that in mind so it follows that siding (UK nomenclature: passing loop) lengths are sized to fit shorter trains.  

Steam locomotives were smaller and lighter compared to ours, so the tonnage that could be moved was less to begin with. UK axle loadings today are about 23 tons at the heaviest, ours now are 36 tons max, so less working tractive effort is limiting factor.

MU capable locos were not all that common until sometime post-dieselization to permit longer and heavier trains.

The vast majority of UK traffic has evolved and is sized to accommodate passenger traffic, big slow heavy freight trains don't fit into that schema when something is coming up behind one at 125per or more. 

I'll leave to actual working UK railwaymen to chime in with more certainty than an observing US engine driver brings.



Date: 01/27/25 07:48
Re: British Rail Question
Author: 3rdboxcar

Pumpkin hogger is correct.
Most main line signalling is automatic and the blocks are short compared to the US which as he says is a legacy from Steam days, 



Date: 01/27/25 09:42
Re: British Rail Question
Author: PHall

Also they still use hook and loop couplers which are not as strong as knuckle couplers.



Date: 01/27/25 09:49
Re: British Rail Question
Author: ts1457

I'll add that a constricted geographic area lends itself to smaller volume shipments.



Date: 01/27/25 13:02
Re: British Rail Question
Author: exhaustED

It's not all hook and loop couplers, longer and heavier trains often use knuckle couplers.

The simple fact is that throughout Europe, which is relatively small and has relatively small countries within it, there's no benefit in running very long trains. Half a mile and approx 4000 tonnes is about the max but they're often shorter/lighter than that. Intermodals in the 1200-1800 tone range typically with 1 or 2 locos.
Also most lines carry a lot of passenger traffic, so running huge, slow freight trains just wouldn't make practical sense.

Due to the smaller geography and the convenience of using trucks the mixed freight/manifest hardly exists in Europe, certainly not in the UK any more. It's all unit trains. 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/25 13:09 by exhaustED.



Date: 01/27/25 19:56
Re: British Rail Question
Author: SOO6617

RFandPFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This may be a pretty basic question, but I’ll
> ask it anyways. I enjoy watching YouTube videos
> from the cab of British passenger trains. However,
> I have noticed that all the freight trains they
> pass or meet are relatively short. Is there a
> reason that they don’t run longer freight trains
> in England, or are there other non-passenger train
> lines that do? Thanks for any info.

The situation is much different in Europe freight
moves over distances that American railroads
would just through up their hands in surrender and
say call a trucker.

As an example 29 loaded Intermodal trains leave
the Port of Felixstowe in Suffolk on a typical Tuesday.
They are operated by three different freight operators.
They are destined for Eighteen different destinations,
only one to Scotland, and one to Wales. All the rest
are destined to the Midlands of England bounded by
Manchester and Leeds to the north, and Northampton
on the south. On Mondays and Saturdays fewer trains
are run, no trains run on Sunday.



Date: 01/28/25 21:04
Re: British Rail Question
Author: BobB

I was on Amtrak 6 maybe 10 years ago and had lunch with a couple of Brits.  They expressed amazement at how long the coal train they'd seen was; they though it must have been half a mile.  I had to tell them that half a mile would be a very short train over here.



Date: 02/01/25 16:26
Re: British Rail Question
Author: RFandPFan

Thanks everyone for the info. Much appreciated.



Date: 02/02/25 10:39
Re: British Rail Question
Author: PHall

BobB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was on Amtrak 6 maybe 10 years ago and had lunch
> with a couple of Brits.  They expressed amazement
> at how long the coal train they'd seen was; they
> though it must have been half a mile.  I had to
> tell them that half a mile would be a very short
> train over here.

If they thought that coal train was long I'd love to see their reaction to some of the iron ore trains they run up in Northwest Australia.



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