Railroaders' Nostalgia > Which is worse, little or no sleep?

Good evening.

It is currently 10:07 pm in the great American Midwest. And I have no fear of my phone ringing with those dreaded words, "We need you for..." Or, "You are called for..." Or when the gal that was pretty much everyone's favorite caller (seriously) was on the line (at 0300), "Hi!".

I remember taking a call (maybe 0200 on duty) with about an hour's sleep, and getting to work to find my conductor hadn't had any sleep. It was tough sledding, but we were making our way up the road....admittedly with him dozing between calling the signals on the radio. That is, he was dozing until I called a "Diverging Clear" that indicted we were lined into territory that he knew he hadn't copied a track warrant for. Then he woke right up, and stayed that way for the rest of the trip. 

So here's the question. What's worse? Taking a call with no sleep? Or taking a call when you've had about an hour of sleep....just long enough to really relax and start to snooze? Anyone that's been in train or engine service for any length of time has done both. Interested in both opinions and reminiscences, if anyone cares to share either or both.

Thanks.
 

it all sucks

Worst call ever was the job at an out lying yard that started at 2 am. You would switch cars for a couple of locals that opreated during the day then head up an industrial track to deliver and pick up cars. Would usually finish up about noon, it did have a regular crew but I would catch it off the extra list, tough night and morning.
CR

From my experience and from the experiences of guys I worked with, a little sleep is better than no sleep.  Of course, we learned ways to stay awake wnen needed.  

One time before railroad I was working a rotating shift schedule at a factory and woke up at 7. The problem was I didn't know if it was 7am or 7pm. I didn't know if I had slept through the day, was late to work or what .... In a panic I ran outside to ascertain where the sun was to tell if it as AM or PM.

After railroad, I was up all day and got a late unexpected call about 20 minutes after going to bed. At about 5am, sun up three of us were in the cab after seven hours after call and 24 hours awake. All three of us fell asleep at the same time and we blew through several towns without bell and horn. At the end of our run we were met by some officials and questioned as people had called in. The engineer said "I don't even remember coming through ......"  I kicked him in the shins. No matter we were all taken out of service.

I think the worst is a like a short nap and getting woke up in the wrong mode of sleep. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/24 10:59 by train1275.

lack of regular sleep on a timely manor, will affect your health, the company's know this, several years ago, progress rail, came out with a fatigue sensing system, called "seeing machines", i found during my research for safety charge against my carrier, it has been tested on trucks, airplanes, ships and yes, railroads, in mater of fact, my carrier was featured, shortly after that, all pictures, video and reference to the company were removed. the company's know there is a issue of fatigue, most notable is poor lineups, and worst psr, awarding bonus's for lying about train operations. the issue I'm making, this research is locked up, and will never see the light of day, without major legal wrangling, anything they have, can be brought up and subpoenaed for trial. they will do anything possible to bury it and you as an employee. they talk safety out of both sides of their mouth, safety until it cost money, how dare you, the unwashed heathens in the ranks ask for a simple courtesy to enjoy your family's and be rested. but also, a little known option, at time of call, declare "this is a safety issue, i am unfit for service at this time", i was given a hearing for being quarrelsome for telling the crew caller that statement, as found guilty, 15 day off. my case made it to OSHA, company BS'ed  them, ran out the clock, took it that same day to the federal courts, i am a strong union member, but my union abandoned me, i settled out of court, i won, sleep is no laughing issue, its your safety and life. whenever dealing with your carrier, verbally or in writing, always repeat several times, the magic  words, "THIS IS A SAFETY ISSUE", those words will guarantee that, get you into federal court, you are telling the company, there is a major problem with safety.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/24 13:36 by alco244.

alco244 Wrote:
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> the company's know there is a issue
> of fatigue, most notable is poor lineups, and
> worst psr, awarding bonus's for lying about train
> operations.

And they've known for a long time. Their answer? Make it impossible to take any meaningful time off or risk your career by running afoul of their absurd attendance points systems. Here's a video UP disseminated to it's TY&E employees back in 1990. It was sent on a VHS cassette but I had it digitized for posterity. What's changed for the better? RSIA I guess. Nothing the carriers have done that I can see. If they could work us 24/7 they still wouldn't be satisfied.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqmJgqWY2DI&t



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/24 16:15 by trainjunkie.

Me personally i cant handle no sleep better than little sleep. Im prone to waking up with the shakes if i get just a little touch of sleep. 

NSDTK Wrote:
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> Me personally i cant handle no sleep better than
> little sleep. Im prone to waking up with the
> shakes if i get just a little touch of sleep. 

I’m kinda the same way.

Regards

Posted from iPhone

In the countless times I got called to work short-rested (for whatever reason) I've done it both ways. If I'm forced to choose, I would lean toward getting the "hour or less". There were many times in my career where being tired, taking a siding somewhere afforded me a 5-10 minute catnap. It's surprising how just ten quick minutes of sleep can help you get through another couple of hours or so. BTW: The best thing I found to help me stay awake was a big bag of sunflower seeds. Seasoned... :^)

Lance/199

For me it depends. I've had both scenarios happen with different experiences with both. The best trips for both depend on who you're working with. I've had trips that seemed to fly by without feeling tired because my coworker and I could converse and keep each other alert. Others not so much.

I was reminded by a colleague of a conversation we had when we both were going on duty around 1 or 2 in the morning. He asked me if I was rested. My response was, "The law says I am."

Posted from Android

One thing that can out of the fatigue issues that crew members can take a nap if stopped for a red signal or delayed for some reason. The other crew members must stay alert. When I started you would be terminated for sleeping on the job. I learned to stay awake and had to unlearn the that behavior. Didnt take too long to unlearn the no sleeping rule.

Posted from Android

Worst, falling asleep at the controls.   Little or no sleep can cause that easy.  My theory was that if I was going to fall asleep, it would be much better that the train be sitting still when that happens.  So, you did what ever was necessary ....sunflower seeds would help to a point, strong coffee, music(now outlawed), etc...but, when all that failed...you saw sparks about 25 cars back...must stop and check it out.   After a 40 minute nap...you reported nothing found and continued on down the track now able to stay awake and concentrate a lot better.  The shift work and crazy hours and unreliable lineups all worked to set us up for a dangerous work environment where being sleepy was common.  Now, with big brother in the cab with you watching...I don't know how the crews deal with it for sure...but trying not to get killed or fired will cause the men(and women) to come up with some innovative ideas I am sure to try and get some needed naps if necessary.

i know a clerk, who was fired for closing his eyes and reclined the seat in a crew van, he was waiting for a crew to come on duty, and transport them to their train at the other end of the yard, 25 year man, nothing else on his record, took the union over a year to get his job back, during hunter harrisons wave of fear era, managers had to get their quota or get fired too, crap rolls downhill. the charge was assuming the position of rest.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/24 08:13 by alco244.

I hope EHH (PBUH) feels every worm gnawing at his body. In Hell.

Regards

Posted from iPhone

I have used to varying degrees of success:

Gum
Chewing tobacco
Coffee
Pop
5 hrs. Energy
Red Bull
No Doze
Little trucker pills
Cigars
Standing
Sticking head out window at 40 mph.
Walking back on gangway at 40 mph. (or more).

I remember Old Heads that would position their cigarette so it would burn down and burn their fingers to wake them up. Could get some good 72 seconds of sleep that way.

I usually just like to sit and remember all the times the Carrier’s, news, public, and Foamers expound on how much we are lazy, shiftless and feather bedding. Good times and good memories being made.

Regards

Posted from iPhone

Off and on through the years I relied on in-the-shell pistachio nuts to keep me busy at my desk. Then I found out pistachios have a significant amount of Tryptophan in them. So much for that, it's counter productive.

The older I get the less effective all the stimulants and strategies become. I still drink coffee and energy drinks, but mostly just to keep me busy. Nothing like having to hold onto your can of Monster in a worn out C4 that's missing it's drink holder while bouncing down the rail at 70 mph. If you just set it on the desk and hope for the best, it'll be in your lap within a few miles.

Plain old fashioned high quality sleep is golden and with the way things are on the RR now, my life pretty much revolves around sleep. Longer days in the summer and more frequent daylight trips (or even partial daylight trips) are helpful.

santafe199 Wrote:
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BTW: The best thing I found to help
> me stay awake was a big bag of sunflower seeds.
> Seasoned... :^)

I remember using sunflower seeds as a help to remain alert. My first-person theory
about this is the act of separating the kernel from the shells with the tongue provided
a measure of brain activity that delayed the need for sleep. Worked for me.

Charlie
 

cewherry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> santafe199 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> BTW: The best thing I found to help
> > me stay awake was a big bag of sunflower seeds.
> > Seasoned... :^)
>
> I remember using sunflower seeds as a help to
> remain alert. My first-person theory
> about this is the act of separating the kernel
> from the shells with the tongue provided
> a measure of brain activity that delayed the need
> for sleep. Worked for me.
>
> Charlie
>  

I couldn't "eat" working overnight, it really made me tired. But the sunflower seeds were a good activity. Coffee to start the night, then sipping on Diet Mountain Dew later helped as well.

"Sleep fast kid, well use you right back on a 4 hour release". (Then they didn't). Not really any time to get to the room, lay down and get your 1'30" call, so you just stay up have breakfast and drink coffee. The call never comes, so you call the screw clerk and find out "your" train fell down, a crew ahead of you that you were going to run around got rested for it, and you were now first out for nothing.

Posted from Android