Railroaders' Nostalgia > Railroads Not Hiring Railfans

I am collecting stories and information regarding this issue. Thanks for any feedback.

brc600 Wrote:
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> I am collecting stories and information regarding
> this issue. Thanks for any feedback.

Writing a book or filing a lawsuit?

They do...But most remain in the "closet" for fear of scorn and retribution.

spengr80 said it all.

Some like John Signor, Art Laidlaw, Rod Asman, Tom Dill, Jay Bell didn't seem to care one way or the other. There are many more but can't think of the names right now. Ive worked with John & Rod, had Jay and Art fire for me. I served with Tom as an LR out of Portland. All fine rails. Well Jay would go out on left field sometimes but he was a nice guy. :) Some kept it pretty close to their vest until they retired or had a lot of years under their belt. There were some that were "Foamers" and were just that. They didn't grasp how serious the job was and either didn't make it over the derail or found something else to do after a year or so with prompting from others.

A lot of officers were rail fans but they REALLY kept quiet about it. Malcom Gaddis took some great pictures over the years but stayed pretty low key until he was finishing up at 65 Market. Same for Gorden Adams. I am finding out more and more were fans of sorts as the years go by.


Nudge



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/12 09:56 by spnudge.

I think one of the apprehensions of hiring "foamers" was the fear that rather than learn, they would interpret their own experience to a serious railroad situation. From a railfan's point of view, and mine too if I weren't at work, the railroad is full of beautiful, elaborate machinery, great scenery, intricate trackage, and marvelous history. I have actually had friends who felt bad that the engines, which cost a million + , were being subjected to overuse. Most railroaders, particularly in retrospect , really love railroading. But before you can appreciate it from a railroader's perspective, you have to realize how arduous, how difficult, how uncomfortable, and how dangerous it can be. Railroading must be learned (or re-learned) from the inside out, through practice, trial and error, and experience. All all must be done within an elaborate set of rules, designed to keep you alive.

It is said that closet foam has a sixth sense about who else might be of like persuasion ....... true ?

Bill Miller
Galt, ON

While it's a pretty broad perspective I've always believed it came down to having the knowledge, skills, and ability to do the job. There are many other things that might make candidates a good fit or a bad fit that have nothing to do with whether someone is a railfan or not depending on the job description. As we know railfans themselves are all across the spectrum and on a personal level there are those that I might not want to have at my home, much less on the job and vice versa. The other thing I would also say is railfans must have the ability to seperate the work from the hobby i.e. when at work focus on the task at hand. For some this is hard to do and if there is any attitude of arrogance or know it all then that in itself could be detrimental to gainful employment whether at a railroad or any were else. Last but not least, if you are passionate about getting on with a railroad don't give up. For some it doesn't happen quickly, but if it's meant to be it will happen eventually.

have had them as student engineers. they go on and on about all their knowledge of this rr and that rr. at the end of the day i ask them a couple of questions about the territory i just showed them and they look dumbfounded. always said give me a guy 25-35 with a wife a mortgage and a couple of kids. he will work steady and learn his job.....

Standing and gawking at some wondrous sight when you are out in the field working can be very hazardous to your health, let alone others'. It takes a certain degree of emotional maturity to handle that situation. Given that maturity can be hard to find ANYWHERE, let alone on the railroad, you can see why companies may be hesitant to hire fans. But then again, I'll state the obvious example, Wick Moorman of NS, for proof that a railfan can reach the highest level of management. If you are a railfan employee working on the ground, you have an extra hurdle to clear to prove to your coworkers that you can be relied on to do the job right. But I never thought it was that hard to do. I had a few experiences early on that opened my eyes, and showed me I needed to be able to focus on the job while at work, or I wouldn't be around there very long.

spnudge Wrote:
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> Well Jay would
> go out on left field sometimes but he was a nice
> guy. :)


Sometimes? Jay was always like that. Ha Ha! He was the only guy I knew of that would talk with his hands. The first time I met Jay was when we were working at West Colton. Jay had just gotten out of the Navy though he had already made his date in engine service and was one number behind me in seniority. Want to get Jay excited? Just say 4 - 4 - 4 - 9 and he would go nuts. He also did a great impression of the whistle of the 4449. Boy, I sure do miss that guy. He put a P5 on a GP9 (3668) I had when I worked the San Dimas Local one day and then went out on the branch and made recordings of us as we did our work. That really was a great recording from the sound of a wig-wag at Fontana going clank, clunk, clank, clunk to the P5 at all of the crossings and the sound of that 567 as we did our switching at LaVerne and Alta Loma.

And then there is Carl Ragoza. I don't even know where to begin about Carl. Some guys on this board knew and worked with Carl. Same with Jay Bell.

Carl was a trainman that hired out some time in the mid 60's. He and Jay were good friends. Carl's dad worked for the Lehigh Valley in, I think, Pennsylvania or somewhere back east and eventually came out west and worked for the SP in LA as a switchman.

Rod Azman told me a story about he and Carl when they worked a local (Firestone job?) on the south branches with a cupola caboose. Carl had put real SP caboose markers on the caboose. He said it was like the 1940's all over again. Typical Carl. I've got another story about Carl that I'll tell later.

I don't really consider myself a foamer but I do consider myself a guy that likes railroading. I don't even know if I consider myself a railfan. I just like trains, that's all. I've always liked trains and locomotives as far back as I can remember. I didn't know it but I think my dad was kind of a closet railfan. It wasn't until after he retired from the SP that all of his railroad stories came out. I even worked with a guy in Chicago when I worked for the MILW that worked with my dad back in the late 30's and early 40's. Wow! Talk about strange.

Fortunately, as a kid, I was lucky enough to make a few trips with my dad. I can remember riding a steam locomotive when my dad was working a local out of Indio and also when he was on the Garbage Local, the Ontario Local, Riverside Local (where I got to run my first locomotive), and all of the locals that worked out at Kaiser Siding as it was known on the SP.

When I'd get home from a trip I'd call him up and we'd play 20 questions...When you go to work? When did you get off? Who did you work with? How long did you work? What did you have for power? And if I worked a helper it was, "How many miles did you make?"

Of course when I mentioned the people I worked with out came the stories about each person. He even told me a story about when he was working one of the Kaiser jobs when he cut the engine off and did something you're never supposed to do and that is to watch as the engine and car become separated when the air hose on the car came up and hit him in the jaw and knocked out two of his teeth. I made sure that after I hired out as a switchman I never watched the cars separate.

Sorry if I got carried away......

JDE

I blame my mother and grandfather. My mother for bringing me west from Chicago when I was 3 weeks old to Pasadena on the Chief. We used to go over the railroad crossing in Pasadena and I always wanted to stop. Well she wouldn't until I guess she had enough. I was all of 4 years old. Well, there was a Santa Fe passenger coming into the station headed east. When it stopped, she walked over and asked the fireman if I could come up and look around. He said sure and Mom hoisted me up. There I stood with all the noise that steam engines make until the fireman opened the firebox door. I had never been so scared in my life. I wanted off the engine, and I mean now. They were all laughing and I think my mother thought that would be the end of that.

A few years later I would spend my summers with my grandfather at the ranch in Goleta. He used to go to the depot in Goleta to pick up LCL for the ranch and I would tag along. He would always time it with either 98 or 99 roaring through. He raced a mallet one afternoon from West Santa Barbara to Goleta on the highway (2 lanes) back in the 50s. Fast forward to Marin County after my Mom and Dad divorced, and my father lived in Tiburon. I would go and visit him during a weekend and would wind up in the rail yard and on the barge. Then off to the USA after I lost my college deferment, where I wound up as an engineer on their steam and diesel engines in Virginia. A few years later I would be a fireman then engineer on the Coast/Western, running trains out of SLO into and thru Santa Barbara.

My Aunt Kitty Bishop had a ranch there and a siding that was called Coromar. My grandmother told me she was able to flag trains back in the day because of her land rights she and the rest of the ranchers gave the SP when they built through there. Just like old man Hollister and his siding, Drake, but that is another story.



Nudge

CArl , Senior worked on the PE as an engineer...

Okay. I thought Carl told me he was a trainman. Thanks for the correct info.

JDE

spnudge Wrote:
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> Then off to
> the USA after I lost my college deferment, where I
> wound up as an engineer on their steam and diesel
> engines in Virginia.

> Nudge


So, does this mean you were in the 714th Railway Operating Battalion? Fort Eustis I assume.

JDE

spnudge Wrote:
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> Some like John Signor, Rod Asman,....Ive worked with John & Rod, All fine rails....etc...
> Nudge

John Signor is what I call a great historical period writer for the SP.....As far as a Conductor/Trainman goes.....No comment....

Rob Asman.....Great

spnudge....No comment

Mike Rogers
Engineer SP/UP 1968/2008
Western/Coast/Shasta Div

CCMF Wrote:
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> It is said that closet foam has a sixth sense
> about who else might be of like persuasion .......
> true ?


I have terrible railfan radar. I'm always surprised when I find out someone is a railfan, or has railfan leanings.

Should one mention being a railfan in any interview or screening process? Do RR's still have the "hiring sessions" @ a motel ballroom or such place anymore?

IIRC, Rogoza would occasionally display freshly-starched White Flags on his engine, and I think was known to change the whistle to one more to his liking!

That's a nice way to put it, yes.

JDE

brc600 Wrote:
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> Should one mention being a railfan in any
> interview or screening process? Do RR's still have
> the "hiring sessions" @ a motel ballroom or such
> place anymore?

Respectively: Absolutely Not, and many places were doing so six years ago when last I tried for a train-service position.